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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, here's a scenario that occurred to me in a dream last night. I woke up before having to reach a decision, so I honestly don't know what I'd do. I was certainly considering drawing.

You and your wife are enjoying dinner in a good restaurant. Like many of them, there's a bar off to one side. Your wife excuses herself to go to the restroom, which takes her past the bar. You hear a commotion and your wife's voice, and rush up to see what the issue is.

A guy, apparently somewhat drunk, is holding on to your wife's arm very tightly (it's hurting her) and has drug her over to the bar. Your wife is hitting him feebly and telling him to let go. The guy has a friend next to him, who seems to be enjoying the spectacle and definitely not helping your wife. You give your best command language to the guy to let go of your wife. He says no, that she's pretty and "he just wants to talk to her and you should butt out". At this point the guy's friend stands up and takes one step forward to make his presense more known.

You're packing your usual, IWB. You have no pepper spray or a tac light or anything less lethal on you. You're in WA state like me, where carry in the restaurant is OK but you're already illegal having taken a few steps past the "21-and-over only" sign to rescue your wife and confront the guy.

What do you do?
 

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First and foremost you should not be carrying in a bar due to the alcohol present. Secondly, if the guy stands say this: " Sir I realize that you may be enjoying your friends behavior. However, I feel that his behavior is inappropriate and I suggest that you not get involved." By this time the cops are already enroute. If the guy does not break but continues toward you, smash his throat and break him down.

The drunk guy will then let your wife go of which then her action should be to leave the area. Now you back out of reach of the drunk and his buddy and make B line for the door, arm up and leave the area asap. Have your wife call the cops and let them know what happended. If they are not already in the lot. Moreover, stay out of bars while armed with your wife and stop eating meat before going to bed at night. This makes you dream crazy.
 

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Blue - I have to take issue with the bar deal - if primary purpose is eating out and the state allows it - I do not see a problem carrying and not drinking alcoholic drinks - unless of course we are talking ''seedy'' bar :wink: Those need avoided of course.

It is to be expected/hoped that there are plenty of witnesses and so any confrontation has to be polite as a request - no aggressive verbals. If this has no effect call out to barman or anyone else to call in the problem - then ask again, reminding the ''nice gentlemen'' the cops are soon coming.

Beyond that if things get worse you might have to defend against a physical assault by one or both - and be ready for that - but as far as the gun goes - that stays where it is - unless and only if you our your lady is threatened by a gun drawn by them. Last resort.

You have to tho play this carefully and politely - and so witnesses would most definitely see you as an innocent party concerned with your wife's well being.
 

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BlueLion said:
First and foremost you should not be carrying in a bar due to the alcohol present.
Heh, you're not married, are you :wink: Standing 10 feet back, in front of the 21-and-over signed portion of the establishment waving "Hi, Honey" isn't going to earn you a lot of husband points :ahhhhh:, I didn't even consider that as an option. Not going out armed is also not an option, which is why we weren't in a bar (or drinking) to start with. Carrying in a place which serves alcohol is perfectly legal in WA, just not in the 21-and-over bar area.

P95, as usual you're probably on the money here. Staying calm and waiting for police if necessary is probably the best thing. The wife won't be happy about having to wait in the creep's paws for 10 more minutes, but it's the easiest way out for all involved. You still run the chance that the cops will overreact and cuff and frisk everyone involved before questioning, exposing your gun and causing you to lose your CPL :( Same story if you try to advance on the creep and his friend takes a swing at you causing you to have to take him down.

Unless the creep cooperates and you can talk him out of things, I don't see a 100% win way out of this. FWIW, I would not have drawn (unless one of them drew a weapon or tried to leave with my wife)--it's just easy to think that way in a dream!
 

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I think in this circumstance, you can raise a defense of necessity if you enter the off-limits area for the sole purpose of lawfully defending your wife. No reasonable officer, DA or jury is going to expect you to stand by and allow the kidnapping and battery of your wife by some drunken idiot. You certainly cannot disarm yourself at the line between bar and restaurant (hey buddy, hold this a minute...).

Matt
 

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If my wife is being physically assaulted then I'm going to stop it by whatever means necessary. Inflicting bodily harm on a family member will not be tolerated for a single second.
 

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Darth, I understand your concern. My girlfriend and I were at the Kentucky Derby, no weapons, knives, spray or anything. I had nothing but my keys. I wasn't happy.

I figured that I could use my keys either as a poking device or like a mace. You also have the option of using the silverware, a fork in the hand would be very painful. Remember think outside of the box.
 

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I'd skip the first verbal command - I'd innocently try to "slip" past "on my way to the bathroom", and as I came up behind him, I'd lightly brush his neck (while preparing to yank him off the stool backwards by his shirt collar), and politely, firmly and loudly say, "Excuse me Sir, my wife would like you to join us at our dinner". I'd watch closely for "clues"......without an instant loosening of his grip on her arm(s)...he's probably going over backwards to the floor. He'll automatically grab for anything to stay upright (my self included, and my wife), and a fast response thus required (knee or foot to ribs or groin). Maybe grind his nose up into sausage with heel of boot. Grab his friend, and literally throw him through the 10 by 20 foot plate glass window and then scream "Never come back here again!" at the guy outside. Kick the moron on the floor three or four more times....and then go finish dinner and wait for Wyatt Earp to show up......

Oh well, its Friday, and my Walter Mitty personality came out.....

I'd probably slip up to him, offer to buy he and his friends a couple of drinks....and tell him my wife is joining me for our dinner. He may be drunk, or stupid, but he'll agree. Then, when we leave, I'll kick his Harley over, and pull the baseball bat out of my trenchcoat, and pulverize it.....and....and...

:image035:

Postscript:

Sigh...I just told my wife I saved her at a restaurant....she explained she "appreciated the thought", but she "didn't need saving, but "Thank you very much"". She followed with a quick upthrust with the heel of her hand into the BG's nose (full force)...and his nose got lost somewhere between his eye sockets. If she misjudged, and caught his chin, he'd get a new set of choppers.....:image035:

Actually - this exact scenario happened to a friends wife when about 10-15 first to fifth degree blackbelts were with us at a dinner. She was pretty far away (down a long hall), but she spun her very pretty and petite 5'1" frame around, and slammed the heel of her hand straight up and into his nose! His nose exploded into an eruption of majestic proportions, and he shot off like a scared rabbit, blood straeming down his face and shirt. She returned to the table, white as a ghost, and burst into tears, whereuppon the blackbelts (all adult) took out after the poor fella. Alas, he'd had too good of a headstart, and they lost his trail quickly (HIS LUCKY DAY). The men were all accomplished blackbelt "warriors", and he probably never realized how narrowly he'd escaped a very brutal punishment.
 

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Insult his pathetic heritage till he turns her loose and comes after me instead. That I can deal with and can more rationally judge if and when to draw. I won't tolerate my wife being assaulted though.

Depending on the layout I find myself drawn to hitting him with a chair......Dang Rock&Glock, you're a bad influence!:yup:
 

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I'd pick up the nearest whatever and wale the guy right in the ear. that should knock his equalibrium out of practice for a bit. By this time his buddy is doing a tap dance on your face. Since the wife is now free, she can whip out her spray, pokin stick, or whatever and relieve some of the pressure from your baby blues.

Or you can just pop a cap into the drunk's knee cap.
 

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P95Carry said:
You have to tho play this carefully and politely - and so witnesses would most definitely see you as an innocent party concerned with your wife's well being.
Ok, this kept eating at me so I have to comment. If somebody grabs my wife and is holding her against her will my civil obligation to remain polite has gone out the window. I'm not asking them to please release my wife, I'm telling them to back the F off.
 

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There are degrees of approach and I still think stage #1 has to be polite. This is not to say that seconds later when that fails you then consider less than polite - much depending tho on reactions obtained.

There might be stubborn dumb silence, or considerable threat increase, verbal or otherwise. It has to be played IMO on an ascending scale, appropriate to what is needed, but agree it may not be long before very ''positive'' action is required.

Wives of course benefit greatly from knowing the two places to inflict ''pressure'' - one is already mentioned re the heel to nose - the other needless to say is concerning family jewels!

I am merely suggesting starting calm and polite - and believe those observing will remember that - as the cops take you off for a cruiser trip and the drunks take an ambulance ride :wink:
 

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jclif1995 and I would react about the same. I would attack the guy with no warning and not let up until he was completely out of the picture. If I got a butt whoopin after that by the second guy, so be it, but neither of them are going to "grab" my wife.

Popping a cap? I don't think so.....
 

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Just my two bits on the bar thing. If you are legally sitting in a restaurant having dinner & a legally carrying a firearm in that establishment that has an adjacent bar area and the Wife is getting physically assaulted AKA a BG actor has already put hands on her...then my best guess is that you absolutely would be OK entering the bar area under those circumstances while armed.

There certainly would be numerous patron witnesses to the event in addition to the bartender.
They would all be required to give statements once the police finally arrived on the scene.

If I saw somebody drowning in a swimming pool I would not just stand there and do nothing because a sign said Pool Closed Absolutely No Swimming !
Hopefully, Common Sense would rule the day.

Actually, I was just in a combination bar & seafood restaurant this very evening...the worst that happened was that the waitress knocked my Wife's glass of ice water onto her booth/bench type seat. My Wife kinda got wet which really put a damper on our evening meal.
I was carrying my Walther PPK/S .380 - but, the waitress felt so bad and was so apologetic that I gave her an extra large tip & I let her live. :rofl:
 

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I tend to agree with Chris. Slow escalation is best - you win both ways. IF he starts escalating it faster - you can always "out" accelerate and still win.

My post was partly in jest, but I've found that whispering a really threating but non-abusive statement really gets serious, wide-eyed attention quickly.

Defuse first...escalate if needed...and then out accelerate to a fast and aggressive conclusion.

Talk with your "significant other too": then, and beforehand - discuss scenarios.

How about, as you approach the BG casually "Honey?....Are you gonna hurt this guy now.....or later? with a big smile.....and then a slap on the back of the BG, with a "Jeez, I'm a lucky guy...aren't I?"
 

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I think, and this is an average restaurant on an average day, that there would quickly be more than one person standing by the time anything happened. I know I'd definitely be up out of my seat if this was going down around. Not necessarily gonna get right into it, but three or four guys standing and staring at you, even if you're drunk will quickly make you rethink your decision.

I was in a Chinese restaurant one Valentine's Day and the restaurant had grossly overbooked the evening. Reservations were more like a waiting list. There was one older guy who was drunk as a skunk and started yelling at the host. It didn't take but a minute before there were two or three bystanders escorting this gentleman out of the establishment. Now, this guy was like 65, so it was gently out. My point, is I don't think you'd be alone.
 

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Hmm
In a big voice i'd say "hey honey why is that guy grabbing you, do you want him to stop?" Of course she would say yes (real loudly and in a scared and helpless voice. Now more than likely the guy is going to let her go because a lot of people are going to be looking. But lets say he's had too many fuzzy navals.
I would then say in a very loud voice" Ladies and gentlemen, this man has a hold of my wife against her will and will not let go. I will now demand he lets her go because i am afraid for her life. If he doesn't, I want one of you fine folks to call the police because we have a problem!"
Now everyone in the entire resturaunt is looking and there is no question who the BGs are. There is almost no way the guys will continue their little game. But lets say they had a bunch of meth for desert and they are feeling brave.
Now I have given them every chance to do the right thing. The fact that a whole resturaunt is watching and they still are in moron land means that they are deranged and dangerous.
At this point I would put my left hand out in a defensive gesture and put my hand on my gun yelling "Listen buddy you have 3 seconds to release her or i will shoot! Someone call the police!!"
I have no problem pulling my gun on them at this point. They have as far as im concerned kidnapped my wife and I am prepared to respond in kind. I could give a rats ace about the no guns in a bar at that point. They forced me into the bar, believe me i didn't want to go in. Whats more, i have been as PC as can be expected and have a crap load of witnesses on my side.
DISCLAIMER... More than likely I would not pull my gun, god help me if it came to that. Hopefully a army of men would be behind me at that point and i would'nt have to. After all the crazy guy still has my wife as a sheild and i don't trust my shot in stakes that high. Hmm another play it by ear situation.
 

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I'm surprised that by now no one has said, "Let him have her!"
 

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I would NOT give a verbal command to the BG to release her. It could turn into more of a spectacle with yelling and threats, etc. The witnesses would be privy to too much information to analyze and report later.

I would keep it simple and to the point: Meeting his force with force of my own... like an elbow to the side of the head.

NO ONE assaults my family :nono:
 

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im thinking when the guy didnt release my loved one and his fellow dirt bag steped between me and her he woulda lost the use of a leg i would just reacted buy kicking hi knee backwards so i could concentrate on the one that held my wife with out worrying about his friend or a punch to the trought think that was said all ready but i would try to get the odds aginst me down just my opin
 
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