Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have long decided that I some day want to get a good, all purpose, SHTF/pest control/survival/hunting rifle chambered in .308 to be the centerpiece of my collection.

.30-06 is okay too but .308 has a shorter action. .30-06 wouldn't break my heart any though. They're both hard hitting calibers with reasonably priced cartridges commonly available, and they'll kill anything on this continent in one shot.

I've been looking at my options for months, literally. This is going to be a big purchase, one I won't be making for at least a year. But that's how far ahead I plan these things. I operate on a shoestring.

But I've recently begin considering something I probably should have considered from the beginning. I'm considering getting my hands on an M1 Garand and possibly getting the barrel replaced so it'll eat .308. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. The rifle that fought World War II is probably by far a better choice for me with its simpler and more intuitive manual of arms even if I don't want to admit it.

Don't get me wrong I have considered seriously getting an AR too, but the more I looked at it the more I didn't like the prospect of stocking up on .223. Nothing wrong with .223, but I figure if I focus on .308(or .30-06), 7.62x39, and .22 LR that's all the rifle calibers I will ever need or want. I haven't ruled anything out though as this architecture has other significant advantages.

The more I learn about the M1 Garand the more I like about it. It seems to me to be a more logical architecture to build a rifle on and I am understanding less and less why the military keeps getting further and further away from it. It just makes a lot of sense to me.

I am debating however what's better: is it better to get a service grade M1 from a gun dealer or the CMP and pay $800 to get it restored to glory, or is it better to spring for a modern Springfield Armory M1? Or is there another alternative?

To be honest, although I would appreciate the historical significance of a real M1 Garand, I'm most interested bottom line in cost and functionality. I realize a good rifle of this type is not cheap at all and I'd rather get the most rifle for my dollar if I decided to go this route.

And heck even if I never do go this route, it's a fun topic for discussion. It has occured to me that for the sum I am considering spending, I could easily have a good traditional rifle (not a cheap one, a good one) and a SAR-1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
940 Posts
It seems to me to be a more logical architecture to build a rifle on and I am understanding less and less why the military keeps getting further and further away from it.
The M1 has several major failings as a military or SHTF weapon IMO:
- Requires a specific range of pressure out of ammo otherwise it's not particularly reliable. The same goes for the M1A. This cuts out some surplus, handloads, etc. as viable options.
- Expense of spare parts. None are cheap any more.
- Inability to do a tactical reload. Your option with a Garand is to fire off everything or hand-cycle the remainder of the up to 8 rounds remaining in it. For me (and for military purposes) this is a major failing of the weapon. This also makes it less than ideal for handing off to someone not intimately familiar with the weapon.
- The infamous "Garand ping" sending the enbloc clip flying indicates to enemies that you're SOL and defenseless.
- Weight. For what it is, it's a very, very heavy beast. I'd rather have one of the old Remington 742s if I had my heart set on 30-06.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
The only big caliber rifle I own happens to be a Korean War vintage M1 Garand. I've enjoyed shooting it and have never had a problem. It is reliable, and yes, it is a heavy gun. I don't hunt, but like to go to the range with it, so I'm completely satisfied with it for my purposes. Yes, in a crunch for home defense, it would definitely put a BG out of my misery, but I've been considering one of the AR-style rifles for that purpose. I agree, and evidently the military agrees as well, that the .223 cartridge is just not doing the "job" in combat. They are now moving toward the new Rem 6.8mm cartridge. Anyway, Ive been thinking about the Bushmaster in .308 since cost is reasonable and parts are readily availble. I do like the looks of the Barrett M468, which is chambered for the new Rem 6.8 SPC, but the price is a bit steep for me, and it isn't easy to find the ammo yet (kinda pricey too).

I would not take a stock Garand and modify it though. I prefer to maintain the "originality" of the weapon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Euc, how about an AR10??? I woudl think something along these lines woudl fit your bill just right.



The 20” barrel is heavy alloy steel with Bushmaster’s Izzy Brake to reduce muzzle climb and absorb recoil. For optimum accuracy, the barrels are rifled 1 turn in 10” - right hand twist (four lands and grooves). A manganese phosphate coating affords complete protection against exterior corrosion and rust on the barrel and all critical steel parts of the rifle. Bushmaster .308 models include a 20 round magazine but will accept all readily available FN-FAL magazines – either metric or standard types. The Receivers – forged from 7075T6 aircraft quality aluminum for maximum strength – feature ambidextrous controls for bolt and magazine release, and incorporate AR15 type receiver features including cartridge case deflector, a bolt hold-back mechanism, and bolt forward assist button. Function controls on the .308 operates much like standard AR15 type rifles and the majority of parts are directly interchangeable. The A2 type has an integral solid carrying handle which includes an M16A2 dual aperture rear sight. Solid A2 “trapdoor” buttstocks with internal storage compartments are fitted, and carrying sling loops are included on both buttstock and front sight base. The Handguards are full-length, and are molded of thermoset polymer composite with internal aluminum heat shields to keep the barrel cool during rapid fire sequence. The Bushmaster .308 rifles are shipped complete with a 20 round magazine, Operation and Safety Manual, and one year warranty.
~A
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,008 Posts
I don't see a big shortcoming with the .223 ,especially for a non-milt. use. You can use HP or other more effective rounds for BG's. For hunting I do use a '06 though. Deer and other game are diffrent than BG's. Other than the weight and recoil a M1 or M1A would be a good gun, just slower on follow up shots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
APachon said:
Euc, how about an AR10??? I woudl think something along these lines woudl fit your bill just right.





~A
Fascinating... I shall add it to my consideration. Thank you APachon.

And you know what guys? I went through scores of potential guns before deciding on the 642 as an always gun. I went through all sorts of caliber and configurations in my head and damn near bought all sorts of stuff. But in the end I sobered up and bought something sensible.

I talk all this talk but the fact is I really do overplan a lot. I think about a lot more tools than I'll ever actually own and I always think overkill in terms of caliber and intuitive use. I love this ####.

It takes me a lot of time to pin down something I am actually going to seriously buy. It's like how I keep telling myself my next auto should be .40 but I know it's going to be another 9mm.

I'll realize the night before I go to pay for it that 9mm is all the caliber I really actually need, and the same thing will probably happen to me here. I'll probably wake and and realize that for what I want it for I'm better off with the M4 configuration every normal person uses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Buying an M1 Garand

I, too, would like to have a good M1 Garand, but not as an "only" rifle. As others have mentioned, you are limited to 8 rounds in the weapon. I think Smith Enterprises will convert to magazine-fed but I fear that would be an expensive option. Also, the Garand is big and heavy. Surplus ammo is available, but expensive and of questionable quality. I have an M1A and like it, but it too is heavy. Especiallly so with a large scope. I would agree with the suggestions for one of the "black rifles". I like the AR-10 and it accepts FN-FAL magazines, either standard or metric pattern, and they are plentiful and inexpensive. Ammo is readily available in various types and surplus is inexpensive. You have magazines available in 5, 10, 20, or 30 round capacity. If you would consider a smaller caliber the options are endless. I am curious about the new Barrett chambered in 6.5 mm, but have no experience with it so will not comment further. AR-type rifles and carbines are as varied as fleas on a dogs back, cheap to expensive in price, and after-market add-ons boggle the mind. Do your due dilligence and pick what suits you.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,044 Posts
Euclidean said:
I talk all this talk but the fact is I really do overplan a lot.
I already knew that about you... :biggrin: J/K! I wish I was more that way. I am one that sees something, gets in an instant frenzy where I am not satisfied until it is mine and then way too often lose interest and go looking for something else I have to have. I wind up wasting alot of money that way but also get to experience a lot of different things (guns). Sometimes I get rid of something only to turn around and buy it again. If I do that, it is usually a keeper. Life's too short (and I am too near the end of it) to not indulge myself. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,017 Posts
Were I you, I'd be considering either an M1A SOCOM 16 OR a DSA FN/FAL Carbine. Since I already have an M1A Supermatch mounting a Shepherd Range Finding Scope, it would be only natural to stick with the same brand for compatability of the mags and ammo. I own a Garand but really only for the sentimental value and because I'm a history teacher. But it's cumbersome, difficult to reload and impossible to partial load, and parts are expensive. The gas system can be finicky. The M14 (M1A) was an all around improvement on the design. FN/FAL design has seen successful combat in some of the harshest battle scenarios in recent history. Either would be a great choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Bumper said:
I already knew that about you... :biggrin: J/K! I wish I was more that way. I am one that sees something, gets in an instant frenzy where I am not satisfied until it is mine and then way too often lose interest and go looking for something else I have to have. I wind up wasting alot of money that way but also get to experience a lot of different things (guns). Sometimes I get rid of something only to turn around and buy it again. If I do that, it is usually a keeper. Life's too short (and I am too near the end of it) to not indulge myself. :wink:
No offense taken Bumper I love this crap and I freely admit it. My current collection as small as it is, is probably still overkill for my actual needs.

When it's something I enjoy a lot I love to agonize over every tiny detail. To me a firearm is as much art as it is a tool. Half the fun is the anticipation.

I have said before that in 5 years I'll own a dozen guns and I think I'm right. One of the reasons I like guns so much is yeah they're expensive but once you've got it where you're happy with it, you're done.

Sometimes I think I'd do better just to stop all this foolishness and go buy one sensible pistol and one sensible rifle and be done with it all, but that's no fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,017 Posts
EUCLIDEAN stick WITH US!

Euclidean said:
My current collection as small as it is, is probably still overkill for my actual needs. Sometimes I think I'd do better just to stop all this foolishness and go buy one sensible pistol and one sensible rifle and be done with it all, but that's no fun!
No no no! Guns are tools, right? Well, you wouldn't use a sledge hammer to drive in a finishing nail would you? You wouldn't use a machete to chop down an oak tree, right? A different tool for every job! Gee, Euclidean, get it right! How many wives might read our e-mail and use it for ammunition in a right to buy argument?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Actually, realistically, I really don't see how anyone actually gets by on just one handgun. I did for several months but I didn't have any choice. I know some people do, but the way I look at it I require two handguns.

I also think anyone who's any kind of serious firearms enthusiast needs two rifles. A .22 and something that's a bit heavier. The other rifle need not be anything particularly impressive, just useful.

And even though I don't use one for anything, a 12 gauge shotgun is a very sensible thing to invest in for just in case. Shotguns are cheap, rugged, simple to operate and very versatile and effective for the price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Yup...I agree with more than one anything....I'm not a collector, just an accumulator! I don't typically sell any guns, just keep gettin another one I'd like to have. I've got the Ruger 10/22, M1 Garand, but eventually want a Springfield 1903, Lee Enfield, K98 Mauser, then get into a Bushmaster or Barrett (or both). Handguns - I've got my first pistol, a Colt .22mag Buntline (circa 1964), Mauser Hsc .380, Beretta 92F 9mm, Kimber Eclipse Pro II .45, and want a Nighthawk (real bad). Shotguns - my grandma's Remington Model 11 20ga, and a Winchester 1300 Marine Defender 12ga. The one gun I sold was an old Colt SAA 1st gen I picked up in an Austin pawn shop 30 yrs ago for $175. I'll save my reminisces of shooting that thing (Bumper will recall) with my first "reloading" experimentation for another thread.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,044 Posts
Prospector said:
want a Nighthawk (real bad).
I will post the particulars on the thread I started a while ago, but I put money up on one today. It is currently sitting in a safe, in a gunshop, with my name on it :fest06:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
For whatever its worth, my SHTF rifle is a SA M1A. I have a Shepherd scope and an Aimpoint that are both on QR rings. Pretty easy to swap them out. I use a 3-point sling with the rifle which makes the extra weight a little easier to handle. I was thinking of getting an AR until I read Boston's Gun Bible. Since then, I've become a .308 kind of guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,017 Posts
.308 Kind of Guy? MY Kind of Guy! Great minds think alike.

ccm-tim said:
For whatever its worth, my SHTF rifle is a SA M1A. I have a Shepherd scope and an Aimpoint that are both on QR rings. Pretty easy to swap them out. I use a 3-point sling with the rifle which makes the extra weight a little easier to handle. I was thinking of getting an AR until I read Boston's Gun Bible. Since then, I've become a .308 kind of guy.
Yeah, I've got an M1A with a Shepherd scope as well. It's my reach out and touch 'em gun and although it does have see thru scope mounts, it's not really a CQB lightweight carbine. But with any .308 that's gotta be one of the tradeoffs. Still, I'm thinking that to fill that CQB role I'll pick up an M1A SOCOM 16 and put an AimPoint or maybe an ACOG sight on it. It's still no lightweight, but it's be easier (and shorter) than hauling the big boy around. The SOCOM would have more applications I'm thinking and best of all, the two rifles use the same mags!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,017 Posts
Collector or Accumulator?

Euclidean said:
I have said before that in 5 years I'll own a dozen guns and I think I'm right. One of the reasons I like guns so much is yeah they're expensive but once you've got it where you're happy with it, you're done.
I've been "accumulating" firearms for my entire adult life. But although I have saved a few of them forever, I always seem to use others as trading fodder to make new deals. At this I've been quite successful. Right now, I have mostly semi auto handguns (six) and one SA handgun (.22 Ruger) that I use for my training classes as a "beginner's gun" and a DAO Ruger SP101 that is really my daughter's gun. One of the 9mm's is going to my nephew but I've made him promise that to get it, he has to move away from the liberal northeast to one of the FREE states first and I doubt that'll ever happen. Geeeze the kid (21) was a PAID member of the Kerry campaign as an analyst! Anyway, once the SP101 goes off to it's new home, I'll have an empty hook in the gun cabinet and I'll need a replacement. So I'm already saving for my next addition a Sig P220 ST with rail and night sights and a SureFire X200 AND a set of CT Lasergrips to use as my dedicated "House Gun" and a backup for trips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I've never understood the concept of a short carbine for a civilian. In the military where everyone must have one of these rifles and they must be easy to transport and must all be the same and must be inexpensive as possible, they make sense.

But I don't trudge 25 miles through waist deep mud in the jungle at a forced march every day.

Why not just get a rifle that a reasonably skilled user can make 300 yard shots with? If it can hit the target at that range, it should be no problem at 30 feet.

With all the scope mounts available now, there's no reason to restrict yourself to one system of sights on many rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
I've been thinking about gettin a SOCOM for a while, too. Have you seen the new SOCOM II?
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-socom-ii.shtml
Seems to have a pretty cool rail system... wonder how much weight it ads. The one down side to the SOCOM that I can see is that it doesn't use standard M1A gas components. Not so good from a replacement parts standpoint. Maybe a scout squad is the CQB answer for us .308 guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,017 Posts
300 meters is the same as 30 feet? Don't think so.

Euclidean said:
I've never understood the concept of a short carbine for a civilian. Why not just get a rifle that a reasonably skilled user can make 300 yard shots with? If it can hit the target at that range, it should be no problem at 30 feet.
Heck, I can hit a man sized target at 300 meters 9 out of 10 shots with iron sights using an M16. Hitting the target at either 30 feet or 300 meters isn't the issue. It's a matter of tactical practicality. Reach OUT and touch at long range from a static (fairly) location on game or anything else is different from creeping through your home in search of BG's where having your presence telegraphed by the appearance of a gun barrel preceding you is not a good idea. Even moving at the "low ready" position may not allow enough time to bring the muzzle into line if the space is cramped like in your home. Please don't say: "This is why handguns were created." Because my handgun is a device that buys me time to get to a rifle or better yet a semiauto SHOTGUN in a SHTF situation inside my castle. But there is a big difference between 30 feet and 300 meters. In fact if I have my choice, I go for my Benelli 12 ga. Being a combat setup it is itself considerably shorter than my M1A Super Match.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top