Defensive Carry banner

81 - 100 of 131 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,331 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,331 Posts
OK Barney.
Hey, I’ll take that as a compliment!
Ol Barney was a good guy and just wanted to do the right thing. Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pete63

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
my thoughts......
if i am going to reload, its going to be behind cover/concealment......it is not going to be like i am on the static line in the open during competition trying to be freak-speed fast.....but it will be steady and positive/quick behind cover..

as far as autos, when i carried one i always carried a spare mag......not mainly driven driven due to concern of the need for lots of ammo......but more on the notion of mag failure, lost mag, etc.....

any of you ever noticed the base plate partially dislodged on a mag....or found your mag not fully seated by a hair or two.....or worse yet, took hold of your gun only to find the mag missing? A lot can happen under stress. You may end up with a single shot.....or a paper weight if your gun has the mag disconnect feature.

the auto is a great tool with many benefits.....but the mag as mentioned is the weakest link of the gun.

a reload for the auto or the revolver i view as no different than a spare tire for the pickup....the chances of the spare being needed is very rare.....but folks in general will not take a road trip without that spare tire.

i carry a speed strip for the remote possibility i need more ammo......i carry a spare mag for the remote possibility of mag do'oh moments........
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
When I am carrying my BT380 with the 9rd DLX mag, I carry a spare mag, but when I am carrying my 9UC with the modification to use the 17 rd 9HC mag, I do not bother to carry a spare.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
Yep. Also why I don't own a single firearm that takes magazines any longer.
Interesting. I would observe that most malfunctions occurring in a semiautomatic can be quickly cleared and with a spare magazine, put into good working order again. But a malfunction on a revolver that causes the cylinder to stop rotating or causes the cylinder to freeze shut, thereby preventing it from either firing or reloading is apt to require a fair amount of time and the services of a quality gunsmith. One example that I’ve seen is the result of a problem with the ammunition rather than intrinsic to the gun itself. But an extruded primer that snags on the backplate of a revolver will require a detail disassembly and some skilled hands to fix. In a fight, you’re better off using it as a club.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
Whenever I’m armed just for the day, I’m ALWAYS carrying at least one spare magazine.

But if I’m on an extended road trip, not only do I have two or three spare mags on me, but there’s a combat kit behind my seat. Combat kit has (say in the case of my new 10mm 1911) so far fourteen spare 8 or 9 rd mags. All of these would be loaded and slipped into elastic bands in the case dedicated for that purpose. Additionally, I’ll have a couple of 20 or 25 rd boxes of high quality ammunition for different situations. Like a box of Heavy Duty Bear loads from Buffalo Bore. Just in case.

The Combat Kit is totally different in nature from the ever present “get home” bag which is also part medical trauma kit.

You might be asking “why so many loaded magazines?” It could be a spike in my OCD or more likely it harkens back to my years as an infantry officer. Our basic load was two hundred rounds before any resupply and I just don’t feel comfortable, especially when traveling through the mountains, with anything less.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Interesting. I would observe that most malfunctions occurring in a semiautomatic can be quickly cleared and with a spare magazine, put into good working order again. But a malfunction on a revolver that causes the cylinder to stop rotating or causes the cylinder to freeze shut, thereby preventing it from either firing or reloading is apt to require a fair amount of time and the services of a quality gunsmith. One example that I’ve seen is the result of a problem with the ammunition rather than intrinsic to the gun itself. But an extruded primer that snags on the backplate of a revolver will require a detail disassembly and some skilled hands to fix. In a fight, you’re better off using it as a club.
the most frequent malfunction i have seen with revolvers is the ejector rod not being checked....and eventually backing out not allowing you to open the cylinder.....one experience generally cured officers of not checking over their guns......including the screws.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
the most frequent malfunction i have seen with revolvers is the ejector rod not being checked....and eventually backing out not allowing you to open the cylinder.....one experience generally cured officers of not checking over their guns......including the screws.
I had one of the first SP101 357’s when the company mandated that only 125 gr sjhp be used. I had a problem with the top of the ejector rod being unevenly milled so that at a certain point on the rotation if I tried to open the cylinder at that point, it wouldn’t open. I sent it back to Ruger and they returned to me a brand new SECOND generation SP101. That’s what I call good customer service!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,159 Posts
Interesting. I would observe that most malfunctions occurring in a semiautomatic can be quickly cleared and with a spare magazine, put into good working order again. But a malfunction on a revolver that causes the cylinder to stop rotating or causes the cylinder to freeze shut, thereby preventing it from either firing or reloading is apt to require a fair amount of time and the services of a quality gunsmith. One example that I’ve seen is the result of a problem with the ammunition rather than intrinsic to the gun itself. But an extruded primer that snags on the backplate of a revolver will require a detail disassembly and some skilled hands to fix. In a fight, you’re better off using it as a club.
This does not happen in a fight. It is really simple to cycle your cylinder of carry ammo before you carry it. The only other time I had a revolver malfunction was an ejector rod backing out. This is another simple maintenance step to check or just carry a Ruger and it can't happen.
I hear all the time that revolvers going down can't be fixed which is certainly true but after shooting for 45 years its extremely rare. I have had malfunctions with almost every auto I have owned at one time or another.
I think the tap/rack is a thing of fantasy in an adrenaline flooded gun fight that is typically over in mere seconds with a couple rounds.
I believe any gun that even hiccups for one round and your done. I believe reloads are also things of mostly gun marketing fantasy for a regular citizen. Sure, carry some spare ammo but, multiple mags is pure imagination run amok.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,428 Posts
I think the tap/rack is a thing of fantasy in an adrenaline flooded gun fight that is typically over in mere seconds with a couple rounds.
I believe any gun that even hiccups for one round and your done. I believe reloads are also things of mostly gun marketing fantasy for a regular citizen. Sure, carry some spare ammo but, multiple mags is pure imagination run amok.
Bingo!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
This does not happen in a fight. It is really simple to cycle your cylinder of carry ammo before you carry it. The only other time I had a revolver malfunction was an ejector rod backing out. This is another simple maintenance step to check or just carry a Ruger and it can't happen.
I hear all the time that revolvers going down can't be fixed which is certainly true but after shooting for 45 years its extremely rare. I have had malfunctions with almost every auto I have owned at one time or another.
I think the tap/rack is a thing of fantasy in an adrenaline flooded gun fight that is typically over in mere seconds with a couple rounds.
I believe any gun that even hiccups for one round and your done. I believe reloads are also things of mostly gun marketing fantasy for a regular citizen. Sure, carry some spare ammo but, multiple mags is pure imagination run amok.
First of all, shooting 45 years? Great! Awesome longevity. But please don’t say “never.” Or that just because it’s “this brand” something can’t happen. I had a Ruger with an improperly milled ejector rod that caused the cylinder to freeze if you tried to open it at that point of the rotation. So it can happen to Rugers. It happened to mine. Ruger replaced the whole gun. Certainly the scenario of the jammed revolver is rare. But it DOES happen. When it does, it’s not an easy thing to clear and in a fight would be fatal.

Moreover, TAP RACK BANG is not a myth and fourteen years (four active and ten reserve) as a U.S. Army infantry officer proved that to me. Additionally, to all the firing ranges I ran for the infantry in everything from M16 to TOW Missile I’ve been both a certified Range Safety Officer by IDPA, NRA and USPSA for over 33 years. In that time, I have seen the efficacy of the technique. I once saw a revolver jam from an extruded primer on the line because the guns recoil (357 IIRC) had caused the primer of the round right behind the one just fired to ever so slightly pop up and it hung up on the backplate. That gun had to go to a gunsmith for repair and it happened in the firing line. That was the first time I’d ever seen it. But the fact remains that simply because it’s a more modern platform the Tap Rack Bang (TRB) technique clears most all malfunctions. There’s a reason that it’s taught to law enforcement and there’s many examples in history of the tragedy that results when it’s not used as training dictates. I can show you recent body cam footage of this happening to a police officer.

As for your so called “multiple mag fantasy” I read a great book (still in my library here at home but now long out of print) called “Survival Guns” by Mel Tappan. I read it and acquired it in the mid 1970’s. One of the historical cases related was something right out of a “B” movie. But it did happen in Northern California or possibly Oregon. A happy hippie couple lived on a tidy piece of land way out in the “wilderness.” One sunny morning they heard the thunder of many loud motors and awakened to see an entire 1%er MC sporting “colors” making camp on the field in front of their home. The young pretty “missus” goes down to sweetly ask them to move along and not disturb their idyllic life, all alone (and UNARMED). What follows is entirely predictable for us (and Hollywood—basically “Straw Dogs” on steroids) but it did happen and left the couple dead. We’re talking like 30-50 bikers. No calling the cops way out there, even if they had a phone—which they didn’t. Is it rare? Sure. But again, HISTORY proves it does happen. Sorry, but retired History teacher here.

You can limit the amount of ammunition that you carry all you want. But don’t ridicule the folks who carry more, even LOTS, like me. Today, me and my “missus” are going to cruise across the Blue Ridge from East Tennessee to Western North Carolina for some happy shopping and food on this glorious Spring day, as we are the happy retirees living our idyllic truth in our golden years. But I’ll be carrying a 1911 Government model (Springfield Armory TRP) in 10mm with three spare mags on me and a tactical bag behind my seat. Why? It makes me feel better. That’s ALL that’s important.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
This does not happen in a fight. It is really simple to cycle your cylinder of carry ammo before you carry it. The only other time I had a revolver malfunction was an ejector rod backing out. This is another simple maintenance step to check or just carry a Ruger and it can't happen.
I hear all the time that revolvers going down can't be fixed which is certainly true but after shooting for 45 years its extremely rare. I have had malfunctions with almost every auto I have owned at one time or another.
I think the tap/rack is a thing of fantasy in an adrenaline flooded gun fight that is typically over in mere seconds with a couple rounds.
I believe any gun that even hiccups for one round and your done. I believe reloads are also things of mostly gun marketing fantasy for a regular citizen. Sure, carry some spare ammo but, multiple mags is pure imagination run amok.
Here’s where it DID happen in a fight. This is a quote from an exchange I had recently with one of my best buddies, a retired 05 of Army Special Forces that still works for the army in a civilian capacity at Fort Bragg working directly for the JFK SCHOOL OF SPECIAL WARFARE. His last assignment before retirement was as Officer in Charge of all Army Special Forces education worldwide. He had multiple deployments for combat ever since 911.

***

Shooting caught on police body cam:

Hey, check this video clip out.


Look at the grips they all have on their sidearms. The primary cop, Andy, in the room had a FTF after his first shot because they’re all limp-wristing their guns. Poor training. Took Andy awhile to clear the jam. If the perp had known what he was doing instead of either being high or just nuts, Andy would be dead along with some of the others. And man, they RIDDLED that guy!
 
  • Like
Reactions: CDW4ME

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,260 Posts
Here’s where it DID happen in a fight. This is a quote from an exchange I had recently with one of my best buddies, a retired 05 of Army Special Forces that still works for the army in a civilian capacity at Fort Bragg working directly for the JFK SCHOOL OF SPECIAL WARFARE. His last assignment before retirement was as Officer in Charge of all Army Special Forces education worldwide. He had multiple deployments for combat ever since 911.

Shooting caught on police body cam:

Look at the grips they all have on their sidearms. The primary cop, Andy, in the room had a FTF after his first shot because they’re all limp-wristing their guns. Poor training. Took Andy awhile to clear the jam. If the perp had known what he was doing instead of either being high or just nuts, Andy would be dead along with some of the others. And man, they RIDDLED that guy!
You want know how examples work? Trick question, usually they don't.;)
Civilian working for military = inapplicable ... they aint civilian in military
Cop = inapplicable ... they aint a cop
Liquor store employee = inapplicable ... they don't work in liquor store
Happened in big city = inapplicable ... they don't live in big city
Happened in small town = inapplicable ... they don't live in that area
Took 12 rounds to incapacitate = inapplicable ... outlier
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,159 Posts
Here’s where it DID happen in a fight. This is a quote from an exchange I had recently with one of my best buddies, a retired 05 of Army Special Forces that still works for the army in a civilian capacity at Fort Bragg working directly for the JFK SCHOOL OF SPECIAL WARFARE. His last assignment before retirement was as Officer in Charge of all Army Special Forces education worldwide. He had multiple deployments for combat ever since 911.

***

Shooting caught on police body cam:

Hey, check this video clip out.


Look at the grips they all have on their sidearms. The primary cop, Andy, in the room had a FTF after his first shot because they’re all limp-wristing their guns. Poor training. Took Andy awhile to clear the jam. If the perp had known what he was doing instead of either being high or just nuts, Andy would be dead along with some of the others. And man, they RIDDLED that guy!
You actually just proved my point. Revolver would have not "limp wristed". You can call it poor training all you want but, that is the reality of a quick "gun fight". Anyone, I don't care how much training they have had, can "limp wrist" at the worst possible time. Poor grip because of a struggling perp is all it takes. Damaged hand or fingers,etc.
I don't consider my LEO training superior to anyone else out there. There just is very little training that regular folks can do that will guarantee any success short of constant immersion in defensive training and who has the time and money for that? You may and that is great but, I do not nor am I interested in living that way.
I don't want to put anyone down for what they do although I get that here regularly. Its just my opinion based on the probable. I won't live my life based on the extremely rare events because its not possible to be prepared for your "50 bikers" no matter what you carry. There is a point of diminishing returns if you want to live some semblance of a "normal" life.
Being former cops and soldiers has zero bearing on self defense with a firearm in America except in your ability to know criminal behavior and what to look for. I would go so far as to say ex cops and soldiers have some training they have to get over in order to effectively carry on the street. I know I had to get out of "cop mentality" myself to get away from an "always on "offensive mind set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,159 Posts
You want know how examples work? Trick question, usually they don't.;)
Civilian working for military = inapplicable ... they aint civilian in military
Cop = inapplicable ... they aint a cop
Liquor store employee = inapplicable ... they don't work in liquor store
Happened in big city = inapplicable ... they don't live in big city
Happened in small town = inapplicable ... they don't live in that area
Took 12 rounds to incapacitate = inapplicable ... outlier
So, where exactly do you draw your "prepared" line? What if you carry 27 rounds and the fight is still going into round 28? Or 43? or 67? Remember the cop who supposedly now carries 145 rounds? I assume that was his line or maybe just his practical carrying capacity.
Seriously there has to be some line where you say "Yep, this is enough"?
Based on what? Feeling? Statistics? What exactly gets you to that warm and fuzzy place where you are always prepared for that "outlier"? People here would love to know where your "reality" passes into "fantasy" or does it ever?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,428 Posts
Today, me and my “missus” are going to cruise across the Blue Ridge from East Tennessee to Western North Carolina for some happy shopping and food on this glorious Spring day, as we are the happy retirees living our idyllic truth in our golden years. But I’ll be carrying a 1911 Government model (Springfield Armory TRP) in 10mm with three spare mags on me and a tactical bag behind my seat. Why? It makes me feel better. That’s ALL that’s important.
Now THAT's funny to me. You live in Johnson City, TN. When I go from here in Western NC to Johnson City, I UP my carry due to all the crazies in that area. You're doing the same thing to come here. Go figure. :unsure: :unsure::ROFLMAO:
Why? It makes me feel better. That’s ALL that’s important.
I guess that's it. Whatever makes you (and me) feel better.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
Now THAT's funny to me. You live in Johnson City, TN. When I go from here in Western NC to Johnson City, I UP my carry due to all the crazies in that area. You're doing the same thing to come here. Go figure. :unsure: :unsure::ROFLMAO:

I guess that's it. Whatever makes you (and me) feel better.
Crazies in my area? Yup. Between the ANTIFA & BLM cells and the snowflake fools that assist them and the Meth-Heads, it can get right interestin’ but I carry the 10mm for the terrain BETWEEN departure and destination! This region has had at least three Bear attacks. The last victim was recovered.... half eaten. Took the 10mm to my buddies outdoor range on his rural land the other day (ran sweeeet and smooth) and after I checked in with the shooting couple to make sure there’d be nobody “downrange” I was about to take the Wrangler off road to the firing line and they called out the door: “Have fun and watch for BEARS!” I wheeled around and asked: “recent encounters?” They replied YUP and I said, “hence the reason I’m limbering up the 10mm.” They came down to the line on their four wheelers and he had his 10mm in a chest rig.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wavygravy

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,610 Posts
You want know how examples work? Trick question, usually they don't.;)
Civilian working for military = inapplicable ... they aint civilian in military
Cop = inapplicable ... they aint a cop
Liquor store employee = inapplicable ... they don't work in liquor store
Happened in big city = inapplicable ... they don't live in big city
Happened in small town = inapplicable ... they don't live in that area
Took 12 rounds to incapacitate = inapplicable ... outlier
What you just said makes ZERO sense. But that’s okay, it doesn’t have to as long as you understand it and you’re dedicated to your own truth. You’re just not entitled to your own facts. I presented video evidence. It matters not the individuals involved or the specific circumstances as not being “applicable.” You can decide for yourself what applies or doesn’t apply to YOU. That doesn’t negate the example and it’s not a outlier there’s literally hundreds of other examples maybe even thousands of examples out there.
 
81 - 100 of 131 Posts
Top