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So, where exactly do you draw your "prepared" line? What if you carry 27 rounds and the fight is still going into round 28? Or 43? or 67? Remember the cop who supposedly now carries 145 rounds? I assume that was his line or maybe just his practical carrying capacity.
Seriously there has to be some line where you say "Yep, this is enough"?
Based on what? Feeling? Statistics? What exactly gets you to that warm and fuzzy place where you are always prepared for that "outlier"? People here would love to know where your "reality" passes into "fantasy" or does it ever?
How about one of these. I would almost think that this would be enough.
354208
 

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So, where exactly do you draw your "prepared" line? What if you carry 27 rounds and the fight is still going into round 28? Or 43? or 67? Remember the cop who supposedly now carries 145 rounds? I assume that was his line or maybe just his practical carrying capacity.
Seriously there has to be some line where you say "Yep, this is enough"?
Based on what? Feeling? Statistics? What exactly gets you to that warm and fuzzy place where you are always prepared for that "outlier"? People here would love to know where your "reality" passes into "fantasy" or does it ever?
I carry enough in loaded magazines to take apart a “straight leg” Infantry platoon. Or a hunting and hungry Bear. I vary my load out. Two mags of heavy Buffalo Bore Bear load 10mm. Then a mag or two of Buffalo Bore low recoil, low flash tactical. I even carry a couple of mags of FMJ because like 45 acp, it will get the job done on just about anything. Now, as to crossing the line into fantasy? When I was a young active duty Lieutenant in the Pacific Northwest, ALL of us young butter-bar studs carried in our rucksacks a couple of BELTS of live M-60 (7.62x51) ammo because there’d been several instances of biker gangs ranging out of Idaho and Northern California to raid training platoons in the woods to grab their military hardware. This was 1981 mind you. You know how much money a belt-fed M60 machine gun could bring? And I had THREE in my platoon! Not to mention assorted M203’s and M16s. We carried the live ammunition under orders by the commanding general of Fort Lewis.
 
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I was an M60 gunner with plenty of belts in Vietnam, and still got beat.
I don't worry much about spare mags and such anymore -- back here in the world is pretty quiet. I'll either have enough or not.
 

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I was an M60 gunner with plenty of belts in Vietnam, and still got beat.
I don't worry much about spare mags and such anymore -- back here in the world is pretty quiet. I'll either have enough or not.
I’ll tell you what I tell all the ‘Nam vets I see at the VA when I go to my appointments: “Thank you for your service and.... WELCOME HOME.”
 
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I was an M60 gunner with plenty of belts in Vietnam, and still got beat.
I don't worry much about spare mags and such anymore -- back here in the world is pretty quiet. I'll either have enough or not.
Was your officer Lieutenant Dan?
 

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No, it wasn't. :rolleyes:
I think what I meant (tongue in cheek) was whether your being beaten in combat could be laid at the feet of poor leadership.


The Five Most Dangerous Phrases in the Army:

1. PFC: I learned THIS in Basic...

2. SSG: Trust me, sir...

3. 2LT: Based on my experience...

4. CPT: I was thinking....

5. CWO: (chuckles) Watch this...

Generally speaking the 2LT and even occasionally 1LT are the stupidest critters on earth and I speak from experience. I’m probably the only Lieutenant in military history to accidentally INVADE a neighboring allied country (Canada) by accident. Penetrated at least three clicks into Canada before one of my trusty NCO’s pointed out the incursion. They didn’t want to tell me earlier because they were too busy giggling. I was one of those officers troops followed just so they could see what crazy thing I was gonna try next! But I ALWAYS took care of my guys.
Know the difference between a pfc and a 1LT? A pfc’s been promoted twice.
 

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You may have gotten beaten, but you're still here to post.
Godspeed.
Absolutely, I agree! You walked through a living HELL ON EARTH and survived when 58,000 didn’t.
 

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Spare magazines?

Yes.
Ah yes! But how many? That seems to be the bugaboo HAUNTING this thread. Some folks just get off on ridiculing those they deem drifting into “fantasyland” because gunfights are always over in seconds and reloads are never needed. Personally, I always like to be early to an event and I always like to over prepare.
 
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Ah yes! But how many? That seems to be the bugaboo HAUNTING this thread. Some folks just get off on ridiculing those they deem drifting into “fantasyland” because gunfights are always over in seconds and reloads are never needed. Personally, I always like to be early to an event and I always like to over prepare.
Depends
 
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Ah yes! But how many? That seems to be the bugaboo HAUNTING this thread. Some folks just get off on ridiculing those they deem drifting into “fantasyland” because gunfights are always over in seconds and reloads are never needed. Personally, I always like to be early to an event and I always like to over prepare.
Well, really that depends upon how many I have for any given pistol or rifle. Usually at least one.
 

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So, where exactly do you draw your "prepared" line? What if you carry 27 rounds and the fight is still going into round 28? Or 43? or 67? Remember the cop who supposedly now carries 145 rounds? I assume that was his line or maybe just his practical carrying capacity.
Seriously there has to be some line where you say "Yep, this is enough"?
Based on what? Feeling? Statistics? What exactly gets you to that warm and fuzzy place where you are always prepared for that "outlier"? People here would love to know where your "reality" passes into "fantasy" or does it ever?
Simple.
Whatever is carried in an area of greater "anticipated threat" is carried everywhere.
 

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What you just said makes ZERO sense. But that’s okay, it doesn’t have to as long as you understand it and you’re dedicated to your own truth. You’re just not entitled to your own facts. I presented video evidence. It matters not the individuals involved or the specific circumstances as not being “applicable.” You can decide for yourself what applies or doesn’t apply to YOU. That doesn’t negate the example and it’s not a outlier there’s literally hundreds of other examples maybe even thousands of examples out there.
I aint talking about me.
I've approximately seen those replies when I posted videos before.
I posted a video of two women defending in a liquor store.
I posted a video of a guy who took 12 rounds to stop.
Those "inapplicable" example replies are indicative of what I got in return.
Examples do not matter to people who are unmalleable.
 
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I aint talking about me.
I've approximately seen those replies when I posted videos before.
I posted a video of two women defending in a liquor store.
I posted a video of a guy who took 12 rounds to stop.
Those "inapplicable" example replies are indicative of what I got in return.
Examples do not matter to people who are unmalleable.
AH! Gotcha. Then those who refuse to be reached are indicative of the times in which we live. I’ve been both a classroom educator of American Government and American History for 30 years AND a Firearms Instructor for coming up on 34 years and MY personal attitude is that I NEVER stop the learning process. That’s one reason I took five separate and distinct classes of advanced instructor level courses at the Sig Sauer Academy. Because I wanted to raise my competency and learn from those who’ve truly BTDT.

In my first class (Bullets on Vehicles) I was the only non-Sig employee in the class. Everyone watched my range safety and etiquette like a HAWK until they were convinced I was indeed a pro and not some corporate-cowboy looking to start way beyond his level of skill and put everyone at risk. I wanted them to scrutinize me and made it clear at the very start of the class.

Thereafter whenever I appeared for an Academy class one person or another would discreetly inquire about me and the answer would always be: “Oh! He’s that teacher from Miami, FL comes up every summer for an advanced class. Ex Army infantry captain and NRA Instructor. Don’t worry, he’s cool. Knows his stuff...” I found this out when one of my instructors told me about it and I just grinned.
 

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You actually just proved my point. Revolver would have not "limp wristed". You can call it poor training all you want but, that is the reality of a quick "gun fight". Anyone, I don't care how much training they have had, can "limp wrist" at the worst possible time. Poor grip because of a struggling perp is all it takes. Damaged hand or fingers,etc.
I don't consider my LEO training superior to anyone else out there. There just is very little training that regular folks can do that will guarantee any success short of constant immersion in defensive training and who has the time and money for that? You may and that is great but, I do not nor am I interested in living that way.
I don't want to put anyone down for what they do although I get that here regularly. Its just my opinion based on the probable. I won't live my life based on the extremely rare events because its not possible to be prepared for your "50 bikers" no matter what you carry. There is a point of diminishing returns if you want to live some semblance of a "normal" life.
Being former cops and soldiers has zero bearing on self defense with a firearm in America except in your ability to know criminal behavior and what to look for. I would go so far as to say ex cops and soldiers have some training they have to get over in order to effectively carry on the street. I know I had to get out of "cop mentality" myself to get away from an "always on "offensive mind set.
Nope, sorry. Training is everything and the difference between life and death. Train like you fight was what I learned as an infantry officer. My old roommate who was in 2/75 Ranger Battalion was a classic example of going on that ride REALLY too far.

He’s the HooAH 2LT that goes for snow training (skiing), breaks his ankle on a fall, doesn’t tell anyone but just laces his ski boots extra tight. Gets reamed out by Battalion Commander for hiding an injury and responds: “But sir! That’s the way we’d do it in combat!” Same LT different scenario, jumps at night, drifts his ‘chute into a gorge, breaks his hip on a bad landing then puts on his 100 pound rucksack and goes about four klicks cross country on a broken hip! That’s walking in broken terrain at night for over four thousand meters. 1500 meters is a mile.

Ratted out by the same medic and this time the Battalion Commander walks up and says: “Lieutenant Clark! Drop your trousers.” He responds: “Sir, I gotta tell you, I don’t kiss on the first date.” BC is not amused. LT is black and blue, one massive bruise from rib cage to knee cap. Medevac!

My point is that with good training and the commensurate muscle memory, you won’t have to think about anything. It just happens. But only if you practice perfectly. “Practice makes perfect” is REALLY “only Perfect Practice makes perfect.” I had an NCO, ‘Nam vet. Told me once about a “human wave attack” against their fire base. Sappers thru the wire. Hand to hand combat. Really intense. He doesn’t remember a thing. Only that he “came to” and discovered a bloody knife in one hand, an empty and smoking 1911 45 in his other hand at slide lock and a huge pile of dead enemy all around. THATS THE RESULT OF TRAINING!

And these days, most law enforcement are inadequately trained. Fear of being sued leads to poor techniques being used. Lack of money for range time reinforces poor training. Worse, there’s too few cops on the streets today for whom law enforcement is a calling. For many it’s just a decent job with pretty good perks. In some cases you get to take the patrol car home and even use it when not on duty. Good medical insurance. Whatever. Those are also the folks bailing on the profession today. Those are also the folks who get too “badge heavy” and get charged with murder like whatshisname in Minneapolis.
 
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tap/rack/bang drills are valid and valuable.........and we were educated in such.....lightly drilled that is. It was up to the officers to stay proficient in such.....and you can guess how that went....for many, it was a duh, think a second, fumble, and do.

but..........for better or worse i will still stick with the revolver in my retired years......mostly that is.....life is full of variables so nothing is set in stone.

Another reason i still cling to the wheel gun? one that is valid in my mind and has happened to me with both the revolver and the auto......a bad/dud round of ammo. Be it a bad factory round....which i have encountered, or a bad/inactive primer.....which i also encountered with my reloads..... Such is very, very rare.....but nevertheless i have experienced such on the range.

the tap/rack/bang drill will get you back into action....somewhat quickly if you are frosty....not so much if you hesitate and fumble.

pulling the revolver trigger again to advance a different round is faster than a tap/rack/bang for most folks...including me........i do not want to experience a tap/rack/bang event at handshake distances with the threat.
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all good arguments on all sides........too many variables....too many "what-ifs"......

which is why i always harp about about mastering your gun, be married to it and the carry system, and don't worry about what the other feller is carrying.....if you are not running your gun at your best....becoming 2nd nature on carry, draw, shooting and being consistent...........then the platform, capacity, method of carry, and caliber along with the latest and greatest super-tec bullets are not factors.....you could not take advantage of any perceived advantages.......
 
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