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nd these days, most law enforcement are inadequately trained.
I think that a lot of officers in this nation have never had enough training. I'm fairly certain many officers don't spend enough time on the range practicing to be accurate.

Around here stories of local officers, mostly sheriff deputies, being unable to shoot and kill wounded deer are numerous. If they can't put an animal out of its misery, I'm not certain they have the mindset to win in a real fight.
 

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I think that a lot of officers in this nation have never had enough training. I'm fairly certain many officers don't spend enough time on the range practicing to be accurate.

Around here stories of local officers, mostly sheriff deputies, being unable to shoot and kill wounded deer are numerous. If they can't put an animal out of its misery, I'm not certain they have the mindset to win in a real fight.
Agreed. Which returns to my point about it being a job and not a calling. Especially in urban areas.

Had a buddy in high school. He joined the army, enlisted in the Old Guard. After he got out he was a cop in a number of different cities, notably Reno NV. But eventually he returned home to my home town of Coral Gables, FL (Miami suburb). Was set upon by a very large German Shepherd. Took him an entire magazine from his Beretta M92FS to put the beast down. He was ragged forever!
 

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tap/rack/bang drills are valid and valuable.........and we were educated in such.....lightly drilled that is. It was up to the officers to stay proficient in such.....and you can guess how that went....for many, it was a duh, think a second, fumble, and do.

but..........for better or worse i will still stick with the revolver in my retired years......mostly that is.....life is full of variables so nothing is set in stone.

Another reason i still cling to the wheel gun? one that is valid in my mind and has happened to me with both the revolver and the auto......a bad/dud round of ammo. Be it a bad factory round....which i have encountered, or a bad/inactive primer.....which i also encountered with my reloads..... Such is very, very rare.....but nevertheless i have experienced such on the range.

the tap/rack/bang drill will get you back into action....somewhat quickly if you are frosty....not so much if you hesitate and fumble.

pulling the revolver trigger again to advance a different round is faster than a tap/rack/bang for most folks...including me........i do not want to experience a tap/rack/bang event at handshake distances with the threat.
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all good arguments on all sides........too many variables....too many "what-ifs"......

which is why i always harp about about mastering your gun, be married to it and the carry system, and don't worry about what the other feller is carrying.....if you are not running your gun at your best....becoming 2nd nature on carry, draw, shooting and being consistent...........then the platform, capacity, method of carry, and caliber along with the latest and greatest super-tec bullets are not factors.....you could not take advantage of any perceived advantages.......
I absolutely agree with you on all points. What’s the old saying? “Beware the man with one gun. He likely knows how to use it VERY well!”
 
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which is why i always harp about about mastering your gun, be married to it and the carry system, and don't worry about what the other feller is carrying.....if you are not running your gun at your best....becoming 2nd nature on carry, draw, shooting and being consistent...........then the platform, capacity, method of carry, and caliber along with the latest and greatest super-tec bullets are not factors.....you could not take advantage of any perceived advantages.......
Well said. Not a popular concept on a gun enthusiasts forum but, in my mind completely accurate. I won't speak to anyone else but, for me sticking to one thing gets me miles ahead on muscle memory and running a gun without conscious thought about which gun I am carrying today.
 

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First of all, shooting 45 years? Great! Awesome longevity. But please don’t say “never.” Or that just because it’s “this brand” something can’t happen. I had a Ruger with an improperly milled ejector rod that caused the cylinder to freeze if you tried to open it at that point of the rotation. So it can happen to Rugers. It happened to mine. Ruger replaced the whole gun. Certainly the scenario of the jammed revolver is rare. But it DOES happen. When it does, it’s not an easy thing to clear and in a fight would be fatal.

Moreover, TAP RACK BANG is not a myth and fourteen years (four active and ten reserve) as a U.S. Army infantry officer proved that to me. Additionally, to all the firing ranges I ran for the infantry in everything from M16 to TOW Missile I’ve been both a certified Range Safety Officer by IDPA, NRA and USPSA for over 33 years. In that time, I have seen the efficacy of the technique. I once saw a revolver jam from an extruded primer on the line because the guns recoil (357 IIRC) had caused the primer of the round right behind the one just fired to ever so slightly pop up and it hung up on the backplate. That gun had to go to a gunsmith for repair and it happened in the firing line. That was the first time I’d ever seen it. But the fact remains that simply because it’s a more modern platform the Tap Rack Bang (TRB) technique clears most all malfunctions. There’s a reason that it’s taught to law enforcement and there’s many examples in history of the tragedy that results when it’s not used as training dictates. I can show you recent body cam footage of this happening to a police officer.

As for your so called “multiple mag fantasy” I read a great book (still in my library here at home but now long out of print) called “Survival Guns” by Mel Tappan. I read it and acquired it in the mid 1970’s. One of the historical cases related was something right out of a “B” movie. But it did happen in Northern California or possibly Oregon. A happy hippie couple lived on a tidy piece of land way out in the “wilderness.” One sunny morning they heard the thunder of many loud motors and awakened to see an entire 1%er MC sporting “colors” making camp on the field in front of their home. The young pretty “missus” goes down to sweetly ask them to move along and not disturb their idyllic life, all alone (and UNARMED). What follows is entirely predictable for us (and Hollywood—basically “Straw Dogs” on steroids) but it did happen and left the couple dead. We’re talking like 30-50 bikers. No calling the cops way out there, even if they had a phone—which they didn’t. Is it rare? Sure. But again, HISTORY proves it does happen. Sorry, but retired History teacher here.

You can limit the amount of ammunition that you carry all you want. But don’t ridicule the folks who carry more, even LOTS, like me. Today, me and my “missus” are going to cruise across the Blue Ridge from East Tennessee to Western North Carolina for some happy shopping and food on this glorious Spring day, as we are the happy retirees living our idyllic truth in our golden years. But I’ll be carrying a 1911 Government model (Springfield Armory TRP) in 10mm with three spare mags on me and a tactical bag behind my seat. Why? It makes me feel better. That’s ALL that’s important.
I hate to break it to ya, but if you think a 1911 and three spare mags gives you any chance against thirty something 1%’s is going to make a difference in the outcome of them wanting to do you harm, I don’t think that will work out the way you have imagined it in your mind.

History is a good reminder, yes. And, there are lessons to be learned. However, in the incident you described I can think of several much better, and tactical alternative approaches to dealing with that situation than sending my woman out to run off a group of lawless people.

Nothing wrong with carrying what makes one “ feel good”, as long as one has the sense to understand that “ feelings” are no substitute for a common sense reality check and being able to think on your feet.
 

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I hate to break it to ya, but if you think a 1911 and three spare mags gives you any chance against thirty something 1%’s is going to make a difference in the outcome of them wanting to do you harm, I don’t think that will work out the way you have imagined it in your mind.

History is a good reminder, yes. And, there are lessons to be learned. However, in the incident you described I can think of several much better, and tactical alternative approaches to dealing with that situation than sending my woman out to run off a group of lawless people.

Nothing wrong with carrying what makes one “ feel good”, as long as one has the sense to understand that “ feelings” are no substitute for a common sense reality check and being able to think on your feet.
Remember in the example the victims were unarmed hippies. In my personal reaction, they’d have had to pass TWO PROMINENT SIGNS:
1. NO TRESPASSING
2. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU ARE IN RANGE! CROSSHAIRS COULD BE UPON YOU.

In the example, IIRC from the book there was a large field in front of the homestead stretching about
400 x 400 yards and the only gravel road leading up to the house. The field was a gentle downward slope. It brings to mind an M16 qualification range at Fort Benning from my time there. I spent quite a bit of time as a rifle platoon leader and company XO. I left the service as a very senior Captain/03. I’m under no delusion as to my capabilities.
 

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Well said. Not a popular concept on a gun enthusiasts forum but, in my mind completely accurate. I won't speak to anyone else but, for me sticking to one thing gets me miles ahead on muscle memory and running a gun without conscious thought about which gun I am carrying today.
Me too. I’m NOT the guy who has just one gun.
 
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Fair enough. That is what I do with the 642. I guess my "exception" is hiking in Grizzly country here than I do gun up a bit.
When Trout fishing in Black Bear country, the risk is no less. But as a matter of course I carry either a 45 or 10mm. For almost everything. However as I sit in church now, a Sig P365 is in my right front pocket and a 15 rd spare magazine in the left front pocket.
 

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Every person here makes their own choices and determines what extent of protection they need. I'll give my real-life example -- Tomorrow morning my wife and I are leaving for a 4 day beach vacation 300 miles from home. What weapons and spare mags am I taking? I will carry my single stack 9mm in a pocket holster so I can float it under my leg or in the console in the car and back in my pocket easily. I will have my .380 in its holster in my suitcase. Spare mags for each? No.
I am comfortable with this and actually fully expect that not a single shot will be fired from either weapon, and that we will have a nice relaxing vacation. Will I keep my eye open and SA alert? You bet. I won't, however, spend the whole time worrying about getting in a massive firefight with many Bad Guys.
If this is not how you would prepare, that's fine with me and I understand completely. As the song says, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do." :)
 

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Every person here makes their own choices and determines what extent of protection they need. I'll give my real-life example -- Tomorrow morning my wife and I are leaving for a 4 day beach vacation 300 miles from home. What weapons and spare mags am I taking? I will carry my single stack 9mm in a pocket holster so I can float it under my leg or in the console in the car and back in my pocket easily. I will have my .380 in its holster in my suitcase. Spare mags for each? No.
I am comfortable with this and actually fully expect that not a single shot will be fired from either weapon, and that we will have a nice relaxing vacation. Will I keep my eye open and SA alert? You bet. I won't, however, spend the whole time worrying about getting in a massive firefight with many Bad Guys.
If this is not how you would prepare, that's fine with me and I understand completely. As the song says, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do." :)
Only one reply to that: Amen.
 
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