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I think one can make a judgement from two reports in this thread: 1) the broken striker, and 2) the primer drag. The P365 had both initially. Sis denied that there was anything wrong. But they have redesigned the striker twice so new guns are on striker version 3. The P365 striker problem showed up after the guns had had some use. That is the issue for me. Same symptoms as the P365 make me assume that it might fail if and when I need it. For me to is just not worth the risk at this time. If time tells a different story that could change my mind, but right now I think the Hellcat seems like a Pearly P365 waiting to happen.

I applied the same standard to my PPS M2. I planned to Puy on early on but waited a while and then the problem happened and they had to recall guns. Once that was declared fixed I waited a year before buying one. I do not ever want to buy a gun that has a built in defect. I wait until they get it right.
Yeah the P220 can't be trusted either, what with that primer drag issue:

 

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Wow, not good I was on base where they happen to have one and I didn't like the trigger pull, maybe it gets better with more pull but I will wait.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Hellcat with a fracture in the barrel's feed ramp at about 475 rounds:
The owner who sent the Hellcat back with the fractured feed ramp was sent a new pistol by SA, and he just made another video showing the front sight can be pushed right off the slide with just his thumb. He bought his Hellcat and mags, unlike the many free pistol gift packages Springfield gave numerous YT channels, so he's perturbed.


 

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There isn't a manufacturer out there that doesn't have some problems, including high end semi-customs like Les Baer, Ed Brown, and Wilson, and even the full custom-built guns aren't immune to a part breaking.
I REALLY like the looks of the Hellcat sights, but, certainly wouldn't buy one for at least a year. I waited a year and a half to buy a Kimber Solo, and really like it. Even though I didn't NEED another carry gun, I just picked up a 365 that was born in April. I took the 365 for a quick range trip, to try various ammo through it. I THINK it's a keeper, but, I think I'm going to swap out the sights for Trijicon HDs in yellow, so I can see them without having to go to the center lens, in my tri-focals. Hopefully, I can get a slightly shorter front sight, because with the stock sights, at 25 yards, the bullet holes are covered by the front sight. So far, the most accurate load I've tried is Remington Golden Sabre 124 grain jhp +P, which resulted in about a 2", 5 shot group, at 25 yards with half frozen fingers.
 

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Discussion Starter #50

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Funny how it was never a problem until people struggled to find a reason to bash the P365. :yup:
Seriously? Striker drag was never the issue, it was that striker drag was breaking poorly designed firing pins. Which is why Sig redesigned them. People were not "struggling for reasons to bash the P365" but, Sig did use the public to beta test their new gun which is just crappy customer service in most people's view.
 

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Seriously? Striker drag was never the issue, it was that striker drag was breaking poorly designed firing pins. Which is why Sig redesigned them. People were not "struggling for reasons to bash the P365" but, Sig did use the public to beta test their new gun which is just crappy customer service in most people's view.
For something as serious as a carry weapon it is constantly amazing to me how adamant the Fanboi's are about how it "couldn't be XXX Maker's fault!!:" Design faults are design faults, whether you don't want them to be or not matters nothing at all. How is it that some SC striker weapons do not exhibit drag and have few, if any, reports of broken strikers and some company's SC weapons exhibit striker drag and have MANY reported firing pins that have broken? Could those two things be related somehow?
 

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[Not directed at anyone in particular]

Seriously??? Two failures, documented on an Internet web site, would convince someone not to buy a gun???

Would you fly in a Boeing 737? OMG! There have been DOZENS of fatal crashes, killing hundreds, since the B737 was introduced! Same goes for the DC-9.
How about the Airbus 320; one of the safest airliners ever made? ~1400 deaths in 17 fatal accidents.

Would you ride in a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge pickup truck? OMG! There have been hundreds of reported brake, tire, or suspension failures resulting in fatal accidents!

Ever talked on a cell phone while driving? If so, you exposed yourself to a far greater chance of being killed, than your chance of getting killed due to a defective Hellcat, or any other firearm, for that matter.

But gee, a couple of posts about gun failures rule out buying that model? :blink:

FWIW, I wouldn't buy a Hellcat, either, but it's because I don't care for Croatian Hrvatski Samokres pistols, and it appears the Hellcat was rushed into production to compete with the P365.

Hope you're not relying on a Glock, S&W, Colt, HK, Ruger, Beretta, Kimber, Taurus, Kel-Tec, Bersa, Browning, CZ, FN, Dan Wesson, Remington, Charter Arms, Kahr, or Walther. According to the Internet, they're all junk.

Whatever pistol you choose, you can find several Internet accounts to prove that your selection is junk. Get real!
I seriously doubt the Hellcat/P365/etc,etc was tested by the builders and a public safety organization as much as the 737 was. That is the whole point. Using the public to really test a gun has become the norm not the exception. To put your comparison in the right light,what if the 737 had just come out and 2 crashed and the FAA determined it to be a basic design flaw and not wind shear or pilot error, or just a bad one built on a Friday?. You are still going to fly one without a care in the world?
Not me.
 

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I seriously doubt the Hellcat/P365/etc,etc was tested by the builders and a public safety organization as much as the 737 was. That is the whole point. Using the public to really test a gun has become the norm not the exception. To put your comparison in the right light,what if the 737 had just come out and 2 crashed and the FAA determined it to be a basic design flaw and not wind shear or pilot error, or just a bad one built on a Friday?. You are still going to fly one without a care in the world?
Not me.
This does seem to be a trend. Maybe we need an Underwriters Laboratory for firearms, to do standardized, independent testing?
 

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Discussion Starter #58
For something as serious as a carry weapon it is constantly amazing to me how adamant the Fanboi's are about how it "couldn't be XXX Maker's fault!!:" Design faults are design faults, whether you don't want them to be or not matters nothing at all. How is it that some SC striker weapons do not exhibit drag and have few, if any, reports of broken strikers and some company's SC weapons exhibit striker drag and have MANY reported firing pins that have broken? Could those two things be related somehow?
That's why I'm always amazed that Walther put out five different small pistols that had to be recalled for drop firing and unintended discharges. The CCP and the PPS were very recent, and those two recalls were about a year and a half apart. How does a company make the same engineering mistakes FIVE times in pistols made over the span of almost 18 years?! It boggles the mind!
 

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It always amazes me that there are a ton of favorable reviews out there for a product, this one in particular had at least one ten thousand round test, but all of that is forgotten and tossed aside at the first issue posted. Talk about reactionary.

Esse quam videri
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Is this really concern over product quality, or more because SA "betrayed the 2A" as you've said before?
BOTH! I know it bothers you that I point out the documented facts about Springfield's betrayal of the Second Amendment and the gun community:

1) Dennis Reese owner of Springfield was accused by the feds in the late 80s of fraud and bribery in a gun sales scheme and he pled to some of it.

2) Springfield had been giving campaign money to the gun hating democrat leaders of IL state government for at least a few years prior to their 2017 exposure.

3) They lied about WHEN they first knew about the proposed IL bill, and WHAT they knew about it- turns out S.A. authored their own carve-out a full year before they said they first knew of the bill.

What's really troubling is that one could be informed of all the documented facts and still not consider Springfield and Rock River Arms to be "do not buy" brands. It's amazing how easy it is for some in the gun community to put something they like ahead of the Second Amendment- their emotion trumps the 2A.
 
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