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In the wake of the Texas church shooting, a lot has been said about the hero, Jack Wilson, and how he was able to take out the shooter in six seconds. One thing not seemingly covered was that one of the dead men was shot trying to pull his own weapon. That was 3.1 seconds. So, how long is 3.1 seconds? Six seconds? Do you think you could react the way Wilson did?

Here's a very interesting and informative video showing what Wilson had to do, how fast, and is instructional for all of us.

 

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All well and good but after listening to Mr. Wilson's interview, it seems they had the eye on this fella as soon as he entered....something wasn't right, security cams. were trained on him....IMO, he should have been stopped at the door by a few gentlemen before he was allowed to enter the church....IMO, Mistake #1...and what kind of shotgun was it that he could smuggle it in anyway.....omo.
 

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I agree with the sentiment expressed in the video.

There were however some extenuating circumstances that resulted in the hero of the story taking longer to fire, such as waiting for parishioners that were in his line of fire to move.

Now, as far as being with in a three yard distance, and taking 3.1 seconds to draw and fire, it is my utmost belief that you should not be standing still while drawing. One can achieve very good center body hits while drawing and moving in an oblique away from the threat in well under three seconds firing multiple well aimed shots. IMO, this creates the highest chance of survivability.

Other than that, I agree on all points.
 

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To learn from these incidents as a useful tool for us is important. No matter what we carry or how we carry it is a personal thing, but being prepared takes much practice. For those of us that might be stuck practicing indoors, is more challenging but still can accomplish some good practice other than just shooting paper !!
 

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IMO, one of the most difficult things to do is overcome the thought "this can't be happening" and deciding to draw and shoot. Our brain's ability to assess and stimulate our large muscle groups to perform the actions necessary is restricted due to our infrequent exposure to these situations and the adrenalin rush that results in paralysis and tunnel vision.
 

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I've never seen realistic civilian training that taught/covered knocking the barrel of a long gun/shot gun our of line when the shooter is within arms reach, instead of first attempting to draw. I am aware of several police academy courses/trainings that do so. Other than that, the volunteer security at the church did an amazing job. Its always easy to Monday morning quarterback and I am not a fan of the speaker in the video offered at all.
 

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All well and good but after listening to Mr. Wilson's interview, it seems they had the eye on this fella as soon as he entered....something wasn't right, security cams. were trained on him....IMO, he should have been stopped at the door by a few gentlemen before he was allowed to enter the church....IMO, Mistake #1...and what kind of shotgun was it that he could smuggle it in anyway.....omo.
I haven't watched the video in a day or two, BUT it sure looked like this. NOT TO NENTION, THIS could easily be concealed under his trench coat.

50651_590_NIGHTSTICK_TALOpng-e1541542032437.png
 

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Let's face it, very few of us are "Tom Cruise"! All we can do is stay vigilant, and practice! (video has colorful language!)

 

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Whose "standards"?
 
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Jack Wilson had just seen two of his friends murdered. There were panicked people moving around between him and the murderer. He kept his head while others were losing theirs. And he made a ******* good life saving shot. An ordinary man performed an extraordinary deed. Good For You Jack Wilson! God rest the souls of the two who lost their lives!
 

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I haven't watched the video in a day or two, BUT it sure looked like this. NOT TO NENTION, THIS could easily be concealed under his trench coat.

View attachment 309770
Yes it can be concealable. I was always amazed that they were legal when they first came out. Not that i have a problem with them being legal, I do not.
After this, I wonder if the Fed's will be reconsidering their legality.
I tried one when they first came out and did not care for them, but still do not want them or any firearm banned.
 

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Yes it can be concealable. I was always amazed that they were legal when they first came out. Not that i have a problem with them being legal, I do not.
After this, I wonder if the Fed's will be reconsidering their legality.

I tried one when they first came out and did not care for them, but still do not want them or any firearm banned.
Me TOO!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
IMO, one of the most difficult things to do is overcome the thought "this can't be happening" and deciding to draw and shoot. Our brain's ability to assess and stimulate our large muscle groups to perform the actions necessary is restricted due to our infrequent exposure to these situations and the adrenalin rush that results in paralysis and tunnel vision.
About a year ago I took a two-part training at my local range/gun shop. Its title was "Violence Dynamics / Active Shooter Response." The morning was a class taught by a psychology PhD who also happened to be a Krav Maga instructor. The afternoon was filled with real-life scenarios in a facility built specifically with a number of locale settings (office building, cafe, warehouse, etc.), where the "bad guys" (actual firearms instructors) shot blanks, and we had to react and respond.

The classroom course was based on the works of Rory Miller. I'm not trying to flack for him, but he's written a number of books and teaches all about violence. He's also got some Youtube videos on the subject. Here is his web site. The key take-aways (there were many!) I got from this course are:
  • There are two types of violence: social and asocial (outside the "tribe" so to speak)
  • We have three "brains:" Lizard, Monkey and Human. They operate at different levels
    • Lizard Brain = physical survival
    • Monkey Brain = Social survival
    • Human Brain = Strategic (this must be trained!)
  • Therefore, most reactions are NOT to the benefit of you or your task!
The key take-away, and this was demonstrated by Jack Wilson, is BREAKING THE FREEZE.
Everyone freezes. For how long is based on training.
The best way to break the freeze is to "impact the physical universe." Put in English: MOVE. Put another way, Learn to listen to your Lizard brain!

Training such as this I find vital. I hope to never be in the position Jack Wilson found himself in, but training - both physically AND mentally - is the best preparation one can have. Then, it becomes "mechanical," as show in the video I posted.
 

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I think that what is being missed in a discussion about a protective methodology which may have allowed for identifying the potential threat, qualifying or disqualifying those concerns via proper and purposeful assessment and taking appropriate action (if needed) by confronting the danger early, thus not waiting for him to commit bad deeds. It is a very basic edict of many protective services operations.

I think it is great that those involved in defending the church had impressive shooting skills but if we are striving for the best outcome, it would be to avoid a shootout altogether. I am not suggesting that this could have been avoided but it should be the goal. I do not know what the security team did or didn't do so I will not speculate but speaking toward protection in general, I stand by the basic edict that I mentioned above.

If there were to be a critical incident review, I suspect that there would be a good many question along the same lines. I do not disagree that several people deserve a pat on the back but one question that nearly always remains is .. "could we have done better".
 

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I think that what is being missed in a discussion about a protective methodology which may have allowed for identifying the potential threat, qualifying or disqualifying those concerns via proper and purposeful assessment and taking appropriate action (if needed) by confronting the danger early, thus not waiting for him to commit bad deeds. It is a very basic edict of many protective services operations.

I think it is great that those involved in defending the church had impressive shooting skills but if we are striving for the best outcome, it would be to avoid a shootout altogether. I am not suggesting that this could have been avoided but it should be the goal. I do not know what the security team did or didn't do so I will not speculate but speaking toward protection in general, I stand by the basic edict that I mentioned above.
I have a opinion that if someone shows up with a gun and intent to do wrong, the only thing will be chosing where the shooting is to take place.

Initial resistance to entry could possibly lead to gun fire at the entrance or result in the killer staking out the building and firing on the exiting crowd.

Given the nature of this incident and the shoddy disguise, its possible they could have kept him out of the main room with better door screening, but again that would have possibly lead to the shooting just happening elsewhere and with potentially lesser security presence.

I'd be curious to know if the shooter arrived late and door greeters had moved on.




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Yes it can be concealable. I was always amazed that they were legal when they first came out. Not that i have a problem with them being legal, I do not.
After this, I wonder if the Fed's will be reconsidering their legality.
I tried one when they first came out and did not care for them, but still do not want them or any firearm banned.
Of course they will propose that they be either outlawed outright or placed on the NFA List. There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men.
 
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I have a opinion that if someone shows up with a gun and intent to do wrong, the only thing will be chosing where the shooting is to take place.

Initial resistance to entry could possibly lead to gun fire at the entrance or result in the killer staking out the building and firing on the exiting crowd.

Given the nature of this incident and the shoddy disguise, its possible they could have kept him out of the main room with better door screening, but again that would have possibly lead to the shooting just happening elsewhere and with potentially lesser security presence.

I'd be curious to know if the shooter arrived late and door greeters had moved on.

There are always risk when confronting danger but conventional wisdom suggests that disrupting the mission is generally better than allowing it to be carried out at the badguys initiative or according to the badguys designs. Bad people will often to bad things to good people. The question is whether or not you want to stand in the way of it or react to it after bad deeds are underway. Personally, I stand with conventional wisdom in this regards. I do not always but in this, I do. Fighting is the last thing anyone wants to do but if you must fight, I would rather chose the place so that I can be prepared for it. I cant imagine that anything good will come from allowing the badguy to choose the time and place.

Confronting the danger as far away from the protected as possible is of course a primary goal and thus, your security contingent should be robust enough to accommodate the spirit of that idea and the model you adopt should also support that goal. Good people, good placement, good communication, good coordination and someone who knows what they are doing can go a long way. If you want to stop bad people before they enter the sanctuary then you need key observers/controllers and an adequate number cover and contact people up front. It goes without saying that you should probably make darn sure that you have your access control squared away so that someone does not simply bypass your security and enter covertly.
 

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From my perspective, the outcome of the shooting was based primarily on Wilson's ability to identify the threat and target him before the shooter was able to identify Wilson and target him. In this instance, it had very little to do with Wilson's speed and everything to do with the fact that he was further away than the two men who were shot, and that there were other people between him and the shooter that helped conceal his actions before he made his move. It was more about concealment than speed of reaction in this case, to me.
 
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