[Tangle]

So off I go to the range yesterday afternoon and discover I can't get the gate to open, then I see the sign:

"500 yard range in use"​

At this range, the drive to the shorter ranges, passes under the 500 range trajectory so the 500 yard range can only be used for matches with the entrance gate turned off; a person stationed at the road to the interior ranges, so they can keep shooting if they are already there, but they can't come out.

Well, I had been wanting to see a 500 yard competition to see what it was all about so I parked my car and walked around and up the 500 yard mound. And this is where the trouble began.

I saw a spotter and one shooter laying prone shooting an AR 15. I indicated I'd like to watch and the spotter acted like I was his long-lost brother and motioned me on in. This is a 'slow shoot' affair so in between shots I could talk to the spotter. Turns out, he was one of the officials and the guy shooting was on the range for the first time. I thought, hmmm, that could be me. BOY!!! 500 yards was a LOOOOOOONG way off and he was shooting with iron sights! :ticking:

The spotter/official invited me to come and shoot at the next meet - I wish he hadn't done that. So I asked about the rifle - it was a stock Bushmaster with iron sights and a 20 inch barrel. It turns out that in this class, the 20" barrel is required and it '...must look like an AR..." or M-16 or something like that.

So I figured to get a heads up on ammo, and checked out the shooter's box on the ground beside him. IT WAS WOLF AMMO!!!! :blink: Why on earth would he be shooting Wolf ammo in a competition setting Image , then again, it's better than not shooting :yup: .

They have different classes of competition and hence different guns and sighting options. The guy i was talking to had shot earlier in the day with his AR and handloads. He shot a 192 out of 200! The guy that was in charge playing traffic director at the far end had shot 194.

That's with a stock AR with a 20" barrel. However, I suspect at least the spotter's gun had a 1:7 twist rate because he said he shot the same 80 gr load every match and he stated a 1:7 is what is required to stabilize the bullet at the 500 yard range.

I'm tellin' you what, I was impressed. Like I need something else to do. The guy even said if i would bring my own ammo and they'll supply the rifle!

 

[niks]

Cool. I can't wait to shoot one.

 

[G-man*]

Most anyone who served in the Marines will tell you that during qualification, the 500 yard line was their favorite, and easiest to max out on.

All open sights. So many people are so into gadgets today, they don't even know how to set a BZO for distances from 200-600 yards. Shame really.

 

[LimaCharlie]

That is some great shooting. I use my Colt LE6920 with carry handle, iron sights, 1/7 twist, and match ammo for target shooting up to 200 yards. After that I cheat and switch to scoped rifles for target shooting.

 

[Tangle]

Most anyone who served in the Marines will tell you that during qualification, the 500 yard line was their favorite, and easiest to max out on.

All open sights. So many people are so into gadgets today, they don't even know how to set a BZO for distances from 200-600 yards. Shame really.

I suspect proficiency with iron sights for military purposes is a thing of the past.

Seems like optics are the order of the day.

It's interesting to note that the military's trend to optics/gadgets, etc. often come from competition where shots have to be fast and accurate, both stationary and on the move, long and short ranges. Shooting stances, gear, techniques often come from competition. Competitors started using RDSs and the military starts using them. The competitors started using fixed and variable scopes and the military starts adopting Trijicon ACOGs.

Now there's the 3 gun craze and what is going to come from that, if it hasn't already, is 1-6 zoom scopes with a CQB RDS mounted at a 45° angle. Is it Star Wars yet? :tongue:

 

[OldVet]

People can actually hit something with iron sights . . . what's the world coming to? My dad shot the -03 Springfield with iron sights at 1000yards at Camp Peary back in early WWII. I can't even see a target at that range.

 

[NightOwl76]

I personally cannot hit the broad side of a barn with open sights. I've bad eyes and they show--try as I might, I can't keep the front post in focus over open sights when using a weapon with a long sight radius such as a rifle (pistols are fine.)

With a ghost ring, though, I'm fine. Shrug.

 

[Tangle]

People can actually hit something with iron sights . . . what's the world coming to? My dad shot the -03 Springfield with iron sights at 1000yards at Camp Peary back in early WWII.

Amazing!

...I can't even see a target at that range.

I know what you mean. Even that 500 yard target was lookin' pretty small and dim to me! :yup:

 

[NightOwl76]

Amazing!


I know what you mean. Even that 500 yard target was lookin' pretty small and dim to me! :yup:

A torso-sized target at 500 yards is small, but it's not particularly hard to aim at without magnification. 1000 yards I can't fathom, though.

 

[rocky]

The black for the 600 yard target is big , at least it was when I shot high power service rifle. It seems tiny at distance though. Long distance is fun , but gets expensive fast .

 

[buckeye .45]

I suspect proficiency with iron sights for military purposes is a thing of the past.

Seems like optics are the order of the day.

It's interesting to note that the military's trend to optics/gadgets, etc. often come from competition where shots have to be fast and accurate, both stationary and on the move, long and short ranges. Shooting stances, gear, techniques often come from competition. Competitors started using RDSs and the military starts using them. The competitors started using fixed and variable scopes and the military starts adopting Trijicon ACOGs.

Now there's the 3 gun craze and what is going to come from that, if it hasn't already, is 1-6 zoom scopes with a CQB RDS mounted at a 45° angle. Is it Star Wars yet? :tongue:

Marines still qualify out to 500 with irons on M-16A2s for at least their first qualification in boot camp. For some who are not in combat arms, that is the only platform they will use.

Honestly, for a known distance range, I'd rather have irons than an Acog, as windage adjustments are a lot easier to make on the irons.

Now, for a situation where target identification is key (i.e. two-way range), I would prefer the magnification.

 

[DontTreadOnI]

Took my new LE6920 to the 50 yard range Saturday and had trouble hitting a soup bowl sized target! I am bound and determined to master the iron sights and not throw an optic on this one though. It came with the Magpul flip up rear sight and the first thing I am buying is a KAC micro to replace it.

 

[molleur]

I've been getting an urge to purchase an AR platform. Maybe just building one would be fun too.

 

[DaGunny]

In the "Old Corps" (I'll wait while all of the Marines here quit laughing), depending on where you were stationed you'd requal on either a yard or meter range from 100, 300, & 500. It was commonplace for Marines to hit 10-out-of-10 on a man-sized silhouette from 500 meters (546.8 yards) with iron sights with a M16A1 & A2. To us, it was an everyday thing. Semper Fi

 

[G-man*]

In the "Old Corps" (I'll wait while all of the Marines here quit laughing), depending on where you were stationed you'd requal on either a yard or meter range from 100, 300, & 500. It was commonplace for Marines to hit 10-out-of-10 on a man-sized silhouette from 500 meters (546.8 yards) with iron sights with a M16A1 & A2. To us, it was an everyday thing. Semper Fi

Out of a possible 250, I maxed out twice. Anything below a 245 was a bad day for me.
At the 500-600 yard line, my sling was so tight on my arm, I had to squeeze off the round between heart beats ,lol.

Shooting at the dog target during rapid fire on the 200 yard line was also buku fun!

 

[peckman28]

You guys are making me sad that the furthest I can shoot around here seems to be 200 yards...

 

[miketelly]

Most anyone who served in the Marines will tell you that during qualification, the 500 yard line was their favorite, and easiest to max out on.

All open sights. So many people are so into gadgets today, they don't even know how to set a BZO for distances from 200-600 yards. Shame really.

i don't think anyone actually believes me, but i once shot 10 of 10 from 500yrds and a 20mph crosswind. that target is really small, you really just aim for what you think is the middle. i was just locked in on the that day n read my flag right. the range officer didn't even believe it so he verified himself. honestly i don't think I could do it again...1 of my favorite memories as a marine. Semper Fidelis.

 

[G-man*]

i don't think anyone actually believes me, but i once shot 10 of 10 from 500yrds and a 20mph crosswind. that target is really small, you really just aim for what you think is the middle. i was just locked in on the that day n read my flag right. the range officer didn't even believe it so he verified himself. honestly i don't think I could do it again...1 of my favorite memories as a marine. Semper Fidelis.

Yes, that ABLE target was very tiny at 500 yards. The best way I found to shoot the 500 was to use a 6 o’clock hold and dot the “ I “ of my front sight post instead of trying to find the middle. I pretty much doped my sights this way beginning at the 200 yard line.