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Discussion Starter #1
Last night I had a stupid dream that turned into
a defensive situation.

In my dream my dad and I were pulling into a apartment
complex in the late evening. I noticed a lot of vehicles
parked on one side and a lone car parked on the opposite
end with a man sitting inside.

I get out of the car and am heading towards my apartment
when I hear a noise and turn to find my dad being held hostage
by the man who was sitting in the car alone. He was standing
behind my dad holding a large fixed blade hunting knife. I pulled
a pocket knife out myself and tried to talk down the BG who
took a swing at me with the hunting knife. Then I woke up..

As I lay in bed I was thinking about this situation. If I had pulled
out a gun and had ordered the BG to drop his knife. What if he
refused? He had my father hostage? and there was no clean
shot to be had..

What would you guys do?

Just in case the BG comes to visit your dreams too. He was
a large white male and had a ponytail. He was wearing a
camoflage jacket and dark pants.. :gah:
 

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He was standing behind my dad holding a large fixed blade hunting knife. I pulled a pocket knife out myself and tried to talk down the BG who took a swing at me with the hunting knife. Then I woke up..
What do I think? Good thing you woke up.

Sue: "He's got a knife."
Mick: "That's not a knife." Pulling out a 12" Bowie ... "THAT's a knife."

:smile:


Seriously, though, it seems to me that a lone attacker who is busily attempting to "hold a hostage" and take you out at the same time has got a lot on his plate. He's highly likely to make a mistake. Uncertain what you mean by there was "no clean shot" available.

In an actual situation, it's likely that: (a) the attacker has the person held closely, hence there is a strong chance of striking the GG in the case of firing shots at the BG; or (b) shots missing the attacker will head off into the apartment complex, possibly striking someone. Still, I think it is very likely that a BG who is attempting to control both you and the "hostage" will fail at one or the other, soon enough. At that moment, he's ripe to be taken out. If he's skilled with the knife, then someone's almost certainly going to be cut, perhaps badly. I don't like the odds of avoiding all injury, but taking the BG out via firearm seems the appropriate course of action. How to help ensure the GG doesn't get harmed? I would hope that we had done some planning and scenarios together, in that the GG could then be expected to react in a certain way.

In the end, here's the thing: isn't this sort of situation exactly what we train for, as students of firearms an self-defense situations? Seems to me we've got a reasonable chance at separating the BG from the GG, particularly if the GG is "with the program" and knows what's about to go down. Which isn't to say folks won't get hurt, but (IMO) competently attempting to eject the BG is far better than to meekly allow everyone to be killed while doing nothing.
 

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If I had pulled
out a gun and had ordered the BG to drop his knife. What if he
refused? He had my father hostage? and there was no clean
shot to be had..
In most states it would have been a clean shoot.

A shot to any target would have been in order. Legs,feet, hands, ear, whatever.
 

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Camo jacket and ponytail... "Got it!" He shows up in my dreams, I'll blow him outta his socks. :rofl:

If I had pulled
out a gun and had ordered the BG to drop his knife. What if he
refused? He had my father hostage? and there was no clean
shot to be had..
Officer Jack Traven: Shoot the Hostage!

Det. Harry Temple: What?

Officer Jack Traven: Shoot the hostage... Take them out of the equation then get a clean shot on the bad guy.
 

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Last night I had a stupid dream that turned into
a defensive situation.

In my dream my dad and I were pulling into a apartment
complex in the late evening. I noticed a lot of vehicles
parked on one side and a lone car parked on the opposite
end with a man sitting inside.

I get out of the car and am heading towards my apartment
when I hear a noise and turn to find my dad being held hostage
by the man who was sitting in the car alone. He was standing
behind my dad holding a large fixed blade hunting knife. I pulled
a pocket knife out myself and tried to talk down the BG who
took a swing at me with the hunting knife. Then I woke up..

As I lay in bed I was thinking about this situation. If I had pulled
out a gun and had ordered the BG to drop his knife. What if he
refused? He had my father hostage? and there was no clean
shot to be had..

What would you guys do?

Just in case the BG comes to visit your dreams too. He was
a large white male and had a ponytail. He was wearing a
camoflage jacket and dark pants.. :gah:
First, if you are worried that this dream is any kind of indicator of future events, or how you will respond, DON'T.

It's late, and I have to get ready for bed, so I don't have time to post links and such. I can tell you however that this is just your subliminal mind at work. It works a lot while we sleep. From the little I know, this is "normal", whatever that means.

If you are thinking that this is how to respond to a real incident, when the criminal actor has a knife, please stop right there. I'm referring to your dream and you pulling out your knife here. I am not aware of any jurisdiction where this would not be a "clean shoot". The problem is, what to shoot, but I'm sure there are some out there.

Let's take this by the numbers:

Known parties: (you know who the players are) check
Deadly Force and/or threat of deadly force by criminal actor: check
Ability to Use deadly force by criminal actor: check
You or a loved one are in Jeopardy: check
Reasonable Fear of Death to you or a loved one: check

If you cannot get a shot, unlikely at some point in the situation, you can at least contain the situation and hold the violent criminal actor at bay so to speak, until the on duty pros get there. In a hostage situation time is on your side, not the hostage takers. Use that to your advantage. I don't know how to stress this enough, but you have to be willing to use deadly force. Criminals can "smell" indecision from five miles away. The willingness to use deadly force often will hinder the need to use deadly force.

Now, being that the knife is a contact weapon and that your dad, or as I call him, Daddy, is in contact distance only one shot is appropriate in this instance IMO. That is a "deep brain shot". These shots are harder than just shooting the torso, and you really don't have any room for error. Thus I would advise you to contain the situation and if you feel lucky, or know you can make the shot, if it presents itself, take it. The thing is, I don't gamble on luck and prefer knowing what I can do.

Let's look at this from another aspect for a moment. Your Daddy is the hostage. If you shoot the criminal actor in the leg, because you decided to not contain the situation and wait for the shot you needed, you most likely have not "stopped" the criminal actor. Being that your Daddy is so close he stands a good chance of being cut and or stabbed by the criminal actor after you shoot him.

I cannot tell you that I would take the "deep brain shot" shot. Having missed headshots at close range in training can be a very educating expirience. I can tell you however that I would be attempting to contain the situation. Now if the criminal actor changed the game in mid-play, by cutting Daddy, then my game changes too. As far as how the criminal actor looks, that doesn't influence my decision, but that's just me.

You also have to be aware of your surroundings, and where your bullet will end up after you fire your weapon. What is beyond your target? In short, what is your backstop?

Sweet Dreams, I'm off to bed.

Biker
 

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Camo jacket and ponytail... "Got it!" He shows up in my dreams, I'll blow him outta his socks. :rofl:



Officer Jack Traven: Shoot the Hostage!

Det. Harry Temple: What?

Officer Jack Traven: Shoot the hostage... Take them out of the equation then get a clean shot on the bad guy.
Darn you! Beat me to it:haha:
 

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Can't really add anything useful here. In my dreams I'm usually ten foot tall and bullet proof, and the ladies well....... Ahh never mind.:smoke23:
 

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Ah...yes...the dreams. I very seldom recall my dreams. The bad guys, or whatever do visit from time to time though. Most of those times these are seemingly helpless (or hopeless) scenarios. Oh....I always shoot in those dreams.....sometimes many shots into vital places. There has even been blood squirting out of their heads.......problem is for me....they never seem to go down. I'm guessing they're just true zombies. There's a reason for everything in this world, and dreams are a part of everything. Exercise for your brain like idle process is for your computer. Sometimes they are in tune with our real life experiences, and sometimes they can be a bit out of phase. Funny thing is how they affect our conscious mind after the fact.
 
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