Just for discussion sake, you need to keep in mind that as you draw the bat swinger might hit your gun out of your hand; might break your wrist or forearm with a lucky shot etc. So you MUST make distance. Well, if you have made distance and can keep it, KEEP RUNNING. :wave:

 

You are assuming there that you can run faster than he can. You might be ready to bet your life on that but I am not.
Create distance. If he attempts to re engage, shoot to stop.

 

A guy outside my car is swinging away with a baseball bat. Why would I get out--one side or the other? That only increases the chance of harm.
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Agreed.

As long as he is outside and you are inside, it is going to be hard to convince a jury that you were in immediate danger of losing your life.

It is just as likely that he will get tired and leave as it is that he will get to you. Sometimes these guys are just in a blind rage and want to break things.

On the other hand, if he breaks out the window and is reaching in to unlock the door you are in immediate danger.

I would use the time to drive off. If I could not drive off, try 911 although there might not be enough time.

Once he reaches for the door lock, it is a different story.

Until that point, you will be in a heap of legal problems if you shoot.

 

FLorida statute:
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

Breaking the windows is pretty clear evidense of "forcible entry." What "reasonable person" would not think that this guy was trying to kill him or cause great bodily harm?

 

I have a question what if he dosnt try and reach for the hand but instead shoves the bat into your face I would think someone busting out your windows has put you in immediate danger.

 

Sticking the bat through the window would be an attempt to do you grave harm and you would then be OK in shooting him.

Swinging though a car window is going to be a much slower and more difficult task than if the swing is outside the car, so you would have the advantage.

At that point, shoot.

Remember that the laws in most states make it clear that your life must be in immediate danger. As long he he is outside and you are inside, that is not the case.

 

is car damage a good reason to shoot??? I would drive away

 

That's only a good reason to run someone over.

Since shot placement is everything, I would try to hit him in the knuckles first and make him drop that bat. If that doesn't stop him (or splinter his bat), then I'll go with the odds and shoot him in his left eye since most bat swinger types are cross-eye dominant. If he's still active after that, and he's still coming, then I'll aim for his leading (left) elbow, so if he does swing again at me, it will look like a Chinese ping-pong serve. Then, if there's still an issue, I'll just empty the mag center mass.

A dude with a bat coming after a dude with a gun has his priorities confused.

 

If your a passenger and your just sitting there, that usually means whoever was driving more then likely took the keys. I know I dont leave the keys with people in my car, My friends tend to move the car around. lol

 

Inside my car in any place I have a right to be, I have no duty to retreat. In FL, no "castle" nor retreat is required.

 

You wonder if a man with a bat is a deadly threat?!

Seriously?

 

What's his average?

 

Had it been me the shitbird with the bat would be taking a dirt nap.

 

Hmmmm, Pop, pop,pop,pop,pop.pop,pop,pop, reload. scan, access, more pops if necessary.

 

A bat may not sound scary to all but I coached little league for several years. At one "camp" we had 7 year olds just learning about the game and getting ready for coach pitched baseball rather than t-ball. These are tiny kids with tiny bats that may not even have the farce to break a car window. The other coach was demonstrating what soft toss will be like, he told the kid "don't swing the bat at the ball this is just to show the class" and repeated "don't swing the bat" at least 5 more times. I am sure you can see what is coming, the kid swings the bat. Misses the coach by an inch since he never trusts the kids but the follow through his the kids dad in the face, broke his nose and chipped a tooth. Man was that a lot of blood.

Some guy walks up to the car I am sitting in and starts busting the window right next to me, I am now fearing serious bodily harm. I would get out on the other side because sitting in the car waiting in an enclosed space with little room to move or counter is stupid. Gun is drawn and if he persists then he has chosen poorly.

Sitting in the car waiting for him to get through the windows to prove he is a threat is BS. I never tried this but I would wager that my 16 year old son with his bat shatters the passenger window on swing one and swing two the bat and the retained safety glass are inside the vehicle near where your head would be while seated in the passenger seat. I will have to look it up but I recall the WI S/D law specifically listing baseball bat (among other things) as an example of a deadly weapon justifying the use of deadly force.

 

Here is the layman description of WI self defense statute straight from their official CC training textbook.

Imminent Threat
The threat of death or great bodily harm must be “imminent.” Imminent means “about to happen.” In order for the danger to be imminent, the subject’s threat must meet all three of these criteria:
• Intent
• Weapon
• Delivery system
Intent is an indication that the subject intends to cause great bodily harm or death. Intent might be shown by acts, such as pointing a weapon at you or rushing at you with a knife, or may be verbal, such as stating they are going to kill you.
Weapon means that the person has a conventional or unconventional weapon capable of inflicting death or great bodily harm. Guns and knives are examples of conventional weapons. However, unconventional weapons such as baseball bats, chains, bricks, and broken bottles can also cause death. Some people can inflict death or great bodily harm with their hands or feet. For example, repeated kicks to the head are certainly capable of maiming or killing.
Delivery system means that the person has the ability to use the weapon to harm you. For example, a person with a knife 50 yards away on the other side of a high fence does not have the ability to use the weapon against you.

 

He would have put me in a bad position,,,, to OLD to run ,,, and not fast.

Would prefer to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Of course if I had the key I would just ride to the nearest police station.

Of course you never move forward ,,,,, always retreat,,,, establishes you are trying to defuse the action ,,,,,

 

He would have put me in a bad position,,,, to OLD to run ,,, and not fast.

Would prefer to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Of course if I had the key I would just ride to the nearest police station.

Of course you never move forward ,,,,, always retreat,,,, establishes you are trying to defuse the action ,,,,,

The problem with that is if you can't outrun him you may become too close in to draw without getting thwacked. You may have to step in right on top of the dude to keep from being badly hurt, and then attempt some sort of H2H disarm/counter.

I think this is really a much trickier scenario than it appears. Forget some of the "gingerbread" of the hypothesized scenario. You have to take into account your ability to make safe distance/space/ and time to draw and fire, all the while being pressed, or you must otherwise physically counter. If you try to draw while being charged and swung at you are likely not going to get a shot off-- and you might very well get thwacked. You can't afford to concentrate on the shooting and ignore the bat.

It sounds goofy but your best bet might be to charge in (which defeats the momentum of the bat) and put the gun right into his chest. (DA revolver would be nice here).

For the athletically inclined (and the movie directors), drop, roll, and shoot upward, while the swung bat goes over you.

You all can send me my Oscar for Best Director c/o JD.

Seriously, its all about choreography. The moving end of a bat, pipe, belt buckle, isn't something you are going to be able to deal with unless you've rehearsed it a bunch of times in a gym or other form of training.

(Anyone else remember those old Cowboy movies where the Good Guy draws his gun and the Bad Guy swings a lariat that wraps around his hand? Then the Bad Guy drags the disarmed GG in back of a horse.
Don't want to be there? Run like h.... first, or charge in.)

 

Not waiting for strike 3. The minute he comes at me with a bat, he's OUT!!!

 

A bat is a deadly weapon and if he doesn't heed my command to stop then I will take action. It's not my fault he brought a bat to a gun fight.

 

Like Bullet1234 I am too old (and broken) to run so fleeing on foot is a no-go.

My MA instructor told us, "In a knife fight, you will be cut," I will assume in a baseball bat fight, I will be hit. That is my logic for putting my legs towards my attacker; it will hurt like a mother, maybe send me to the ER for repairs, but likely will not incapacitate me. I may even get a lucky shot in-:kicknuts:

OK now lets try the other plan. Go out to your vehicle, dress for the weather, don't forget your gun and sit in the passenger seat. Comfortable? Good- now as fast as you can get to the driver side and out or in position to drive off, I'll wait.:image073:

Back? How did that go? I will bet awkward and time consuming. Now did Barry and his bat keep whacking the passenger side or did he try to get in? Maybe he ran around to the driver side- now what?

Unless you are unusually limber and can move fast to distance, the only scenario I can see is prepare to take damage and fight back. You are being assaulted with a deadly weapon; the danger is imminent. Draw your weapon. If he breaks off and leaves, great call 911 otherwise remember don't shoot your own foot.

 

Where did the idea that a baseball bat is a toy that can be used as a weapon come from? Actually isn't it the other way around? Man has used clubs for a few thousand years as weapons to kill prey and each other with. It was only in the last hundred years that we found a peaceful use for the club by using it as a baseball bat.

Michael

 

....................... Man has used clubs for a few thousand years as weapons to kill prey and each other with.....................
Michael

I think that's why this scenario provokes such a 'visceral' response in me.

I've repeatedly read of people being shot - even multiple times - and surviving.... some of them not even realizing they were shot at the time they took the 'hit'.
On the other hand I cannot imagine someone not being painfully damaged by even one blow from a hard-swung 'club'.

I know at a very deep level I do not want to become that plile of crushed bones and bloody meat.
When I started this thread I was VERY clear that in this situation I would shoot the attacker to the ground.
I then wondered if I was over reacting so I sought forum members' responses.

Thank you all for your validating input.

 

74 yr old man, beat to death in California Walmart (sports section ) from a man who was asking him for some money, and he refused.

Dangerous enough for ya ?

Gangs in Canada, saw off baseball bats so that they can hide them in their coats, then rob ... and many times have killed the victim, by beating them to death. Rival gang members in the wrong territory, get beaten to death.

Dangerous enough for ya ?

Only takes one good swing and connecting someone in the head, it can be all over.

 

They reach for a weapon I reach for a weapon. They come at me with a weapon I fire. I would also have my hand in a position to draw, and maybe even gun uot if I felt it completely necessary, if I had multiple antagonists threatening me. This is not the old days when you didn't hit someone who was down. These days people who are of the mind set to start a fight oe attack you will beat and kick even an unconsious person, which can easily cause life threatening injuries, especially with a mob mentality behind them.

 

Yeah, a baseball bat is a deadly weapon. Play this scene for the jury and explain that your memory of it is the reason you shot in self defense.

 

if you are in a car, no keys stay in the car. it is very un likely they will get a swing that will do anymore than damage the car. Remember if he is outside of the car he can easily get to wherever you are faster than you can. If you can get out and he backs you into a corner and you have no escape other than using deadly force then don't shoot the mame. Put one dead center in the torso. Don't give them a chance to attack again.
That's my 2 cents.

 

That's not far from where I live.

A baseball bat EASILY is a deadly threat. If you have no escape, then I see no problem defending yourself with any means necessary.

 

My first option is to drive away, if escape is not an option, then ending the threat is the what is left.

"Take me out to the ball game...'cause it's 1, 2 (to the center of mass), and three to the head...":brutal7:

 

...give me a ball bat and I will most definitely prove to you that it is in fact lethal.
Probably more so than a knife.
It reaches farther, requires little skill, and can instantly turn off an opponents ability to do anything other than swallow their teeth.

 

I'm with you. I'd prefer a bat over a knife in most cases I can envision.

Michael

 

Gene83....that is PRECISELY the scene I had in mind when I read the news story.

What's it been?...20__30years since that movie?? It made a terrible impression on me.
Ain't never gonna' be there as long as my Kimber is on my side!!!!

 

LOL you and me both. It hurts my head just to watch. Those were some vicious licks.

 

Never bring a knife to a bat fight?