Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,050 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Six Wounded in Wash. Mall Shooting By RACHEL LA CORTE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 57 minutes ago

A gunman opened fire inside a busy shopping mall Sunday, wounding at least six people and taking three others hostage in a music store before he surrendered to a SWAT team, authorities said.

Witnesses described seeing a clean-cut man walking backward through the mall, firing a rifle. At least six people were injured, one critically, as shoppers and store clerks scrambled for cover.

Dominick Maldonado, 20, of Tacoma was booked into the Pierce County Jail on six counts of assault and three counts of kidnapping, according to jail records reported by The Seattle Times and the Tacoma News Tribune. He was being held on $450,000 bail.

Court records show he has an extensive juvenile criminal history dating back to 1998. He has been convicted of burglary, theft and possession of burglary tools and he had been ordered not to possess any weapons, the Times reported.

The suspect came out of the Sam Goody music store without a gun and surrendered to the SWAT team, Tacoma police spokesman Mark Fulghum said. He said police were interviewing the victims and the three hostages — two men and a woman — to determine what happened during the nearly four hours he was inside.

While the suspect was in the music store, employee Joe Hudson was able to pick up a phone call from The Associated Press and say he and others had been taken hostage. He said little more but could be heard telling others that he was talking to the AP.

Susan Serveau said she also called her daughter, Kathy Riggans, 24, a manager at Sam Goody, as soon as she heard about the shooting.

"She was upset and scared. She was crying," Serveau said, standing in a parking lot near the mall. "All she would say was that she was OK."

Authorities said they began getting calls about 12:15 p.m. that shots had been fired inside the Tacoma Mall. The first caller said a gunman "was in the mall, walking along, firing," Fulghum said.

State Patrol and police units from nearby agencies clustered around an entrance at the south end.

Inside, Stacy Wilson, 29, of Bonney Lake, heard a popping noise and turned around.

"I saw the gunman randomly shooting. I ran with a group of women to Victoria's Secret," Wilson said. She said they crouched behind a wall in the store, and when the shooting stopped, an employee ran out and closed a security gate at the front.

Wilson said she heard 15 to 20 shots.

"He was walking backward and shooting. I couldn't see his face," she said. "Everyone was running and screaming."

A man told KING-TV the gunman was smiling as he fired an assault rifle in bursts of four to five shots.

The man said he told his daughter and grandson to run and then hid in the back of a store with his wife and granddaughter. He says they helped a woman who was shot in the leg, bandaging the wound and wrapping her in blankets.

A woman who said she made eye contact with the "very clean-cut" gunman before he opened fire told Northwest Cable News, "When I heard the shooting I thought, 'This is a joke. ... I couldn't believe this was actually happening, that someone would do this."

Betz Dejarnatt, who works at the J.C. Penney store, said workers were herded into dressing rooms and offices, then police took them outside to a parking lot.

Six people were taken to hospitals, most with minor injuries, according to Tacoma Fire Department Deputy Chief Jon Lendosky. One person was in critical condition at Tacoma General Hospital, spokesman Todd Kelley said.

Copyright © 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

Copyright © 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
"When I heard the shooting, I thought, this is a joke..."

How often does a story on an event such as this offer a quote of this sort? I guess it is human nature not to want to believe random attacks occur.
Is this an example where a ccw person, combining a bit of luck and lots of preparation, could have ended this without the terrible results that occured? It is hard to tell from the news account, but if the guy was "walking backwards.." maybe so.
Jeez.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,595 Posts
Thanks Scott

I caught only a small part of this story on the news.
I was hoping that somebody would post the complete story.

Yes, this was a situation where a good, qualified carry person could have ended this early & with a somewhat better outcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,050 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
You are correct. A person with a CCW could have ended this mutt's rampage in short order. However in an effort to protect its patrons from evil guns, the mall's management had posted no weapons signs on the mall's doors. Since they created the unarmed victim zone I hope that someone there sues them for it. :chairshot

Another reason I do almost all my shopping online.

-Scott-
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,005 Posts
I wonder if the gun control crowd will ever understand, criminals will get guns banned or not. Too bad a CCW or several CCW holders were not present in the mall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
and he had been ordered not to possess any weapons
Well, that was effective, no? :rolleyes:
I hope this doesn't prompt another call for bans on weapons.... :grumpy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
rocky said:
I wonder if the gun control crowd will ever understand, criminals will get guns banned or not. Too bad a CCW or several CCW holders were not present in the mall.
It seems so simple and obvious, they will never get it because it does not fit their version of reality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,848 Posts
Tacoma mall is a 'free kill zone' that is the reason I never shop there. I am sure that a lot of other ccw persons boycott the mall for the same reason. I make it a point to never give my patronize to any place posted "no guns allowed'
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,005 Posts
raevan said:
Tacoma mall is a 'free kill zone' that is the reason I never shop there. I am sure that a lot of other ccw persons boycott the mall for the same reason. I make it a point to never give my patronize to any place posted "no guns allowed'

Me too. Luckily N. MI is a gun friendly area. Few if any places prohibit CCW. I have not see 1 yet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Can't add much - just echo the usual comments we make after such events.

Yes - ''free kill zones'' engendered by mall or other business policies, certainly make darned sure that some nutjob will have free reign to go on a spree unchallenged.

It is so absurd, because while it is conjecture of course, there is every chance that had that mall been containing just a few CCW's - chances are indeed that the perp could have been stopped very early on.

I need to go bang my already aching head, on the nearest wall again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
In a follow up story the owners of the mall were aghast because their "Code of Conduct" posted by the bathrooms specifically prohibit the carrying of weapons on mall property? "Maybe we need a bigger sign?"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
"Maybe we need a bigger sign?"
Ain't that just great!!! Yeah right - 8' x 10' neon flashing signs might help eh?

I mean, these nutjobs and criminals are bound to heed that for sure :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cuss:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,206 Posts
You have got to be kidding me!!!!

"In a follow up story the owners of the mall were aghast because their "Code of Conduct" posted by the bathrooms specifically prohibit the carrying of weapons on mall property? "Maybe we need a bigger sign?""

Are they really that stupid or is this a joke?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
They're that stupid. Trust me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,292 Posts
Scott said:
You are correct. A person with a CCW could have ended this mutt's rampage in short order. However in an effort to protect its patrons from evil guns, the mall's management had posted no weapons signs on the mall's doors. Since they created the unarmed victim zone I hope that someone there sues them for it. :chairshot

Another reason I do almost all my shopping online.

-Scott-
That is why when I see one of those signs I
a. go some place gun friendly.
b. ignore the sign, "it is better to be judged my 12 than carried by 6" Worse case senario if found out they tell you to leave.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,537 Posts
raevan said:
Tacoma mall is a 'free kill zone' that is the reason I never shop there. I am sure that a lot of other ccw persons boycott the mall for the same reason. I make it a point to never give my patronize to any place posted "no guns allowed'
I wonder if this would be a good time for some of the local CCW folks to write a nice polite letter to the mall management pointing out (1) how well thier sign worked, (2) the fact that there are people legally permitted to carry, and (3) the fact that they are putting your life at risk. Not that I'd expect much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
I really, really doubt telling them that they're preventing law-abiding permitholders from protecting themselves would work. They're afraid of guns and I doubt they'd make exception for us.

They'd freak out when you tell them there's actually people who can legally carry guns. And then they'd make the signs bigger. :rolleyes:

And then some places would probably install metal detectors to really make sure the permitholders are unarmed. Meanwhile, another hell-bent thug shoots the security guard by the detector and starts another spree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
Been a long time since I was stationed at Fort Lewis. Heck, the 9th ID no longer even exists. When I was an officer at Lewis, I was able to carry concealed under Washington law and did, even on post.

Here in Florida a mall has the right to ban CCW on private property but it is a policy not a law. Actually the law reads (to the effect) that carrying concealed weapons is not permitted on said property. IF DETECTED, you will be asked to leave the property. If you return and are AGAIN DETECTED, you MAY be arrested for trespass after warning (a misdemeanor). I ignore those signs here in Florida.

But it might be well to write the property owners after this incident and remind them that while the BG in this case ignored the rules, if you are denied your right of self defense under state law, and you come to harm on private property, you can make use of a civil suit.

Your cause of action? The failure to make adequate security provisions while you were denied access to your lawful firearm. They can prohibit you from carrying, but then, they voluntarily assume the duty to protect you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
ExSoldier762 said:
They can prohibit you from carrying, but then, they voluntarily assume the duty to protect you.
Ok, I'm with you totally on this one, but let me play Devil's advocate here...

If the Police do not have a duty to protect you, and our justice system has ruled that they do not have any responsibility to do so, what makes you think that our justice system will allow a business owner to be sued for not protecting you?

Do you really believe that when the guy driving around in the car with "To Protect and Serve" written on the side has no responsibility to actually protect, that the guy with "Sale Items 10% Off" in front of his store will be held to a higher standard??

To my knowledge, this type of situation has not been brought to court yet, but when it finally does I am anxious to see what the jury decides. I think much will depend on where the first such case is tried...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
LeatherneckOIF2 said:
Ok, I'm with you totally on this one, but let me play Devil's advocate here...

If the Police do not have a duty to protect you, and our justice system has ruled that they do not have any responsibility to do so, what makes you think that our justice system will allow a business owner to be sued for not protecting you?
It happens all the time - unlike the police, the owner of property where you are invited for the purposes of business does have a duty to protect you from both known hazards and reasonably forseeable hazards.

A brief primer on the duty of a landowner to a business invitee: http://www.cafelaw.com/premliab.html

Matt
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top