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As a concealed carrier, I think most of us try to think about and consider the possible scenarios We could find ourselves in and how We would respond. However, the scenario of coming up behind an armed “bad guy” or getting the drop on them is one I’m not sure how should be safely handled. For instance, if someone broke into my house and they had a gun, but I was able to get behind them gun drawn with out their knowledge, how do I get their attention and let them know I have a gun and the upper hand with out completely startling them and have them possibly instinctively spin around with a gun possibly forcing me to shoot? I assume the LEOs have probably had training or most likely real world experience with how to handle this type of situation without increasing the chance of requiring deadly force. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 

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Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public let’s say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your “castle” the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
 

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Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public let’s say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your “castle” the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
In my state you have an equal right to protect another with deadly force. They pull on someone else, if it doesn't place my children in jeopardy, then the assailant is fair game.
 
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Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public let’s say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your “castle” the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
If you draw on him, what do you do with his buddy on your six?
 

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Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public let’s say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your “castle” the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
You are under no obligation or expectation to defend others, especially those unknown to you. That is going to be your decision to take, based upon the laws of your state of course.
 
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This is a question that is next to impossible to answer. The best answer is IT DEPENDS. That means there are dozens of factors that are specific to each different situation.

You should start with the particular laws of your state - and please, download a copy of your state laws in pdf form and read them through first. Do not trust what someone tells you on the internet, unless they are a lawyer licensed to practice criminal law in your state, and willing to take you as a client.

In the final analysis, the bottom line is simple: If you believe you may have to shoot (and your state laws allow for defense of a third party) draw your weapon and move quietly and quickly to a position of cover. If the situation is otherwise, do not draw, just seek cover.


Welcome to DC by the way, from the Texas Gulf Coast.
 

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Thanks Oldchap, the question was intended as less of a legal question and more of a tactical question of how to approach the scenario. Mainly cause if the guys back is turned and we’re in public and he’s not in my house at 1 a.m. (to me implying seemingly more nefarious intentions, which is probably I’ll guided) I’m not gonna just draw and shoot him in the back, but I don’t want to draw and have him turn around and shoot me cause I demanded him to drop the gun. I also don’t feel right letting a innocent person get shot over $100 in the register when I possibly had the means to prevent it.
 

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Thanks Oldchap, the question was intended as less of a legal question and more of a tactical question of how to approach the scenario. Mainly cause if the guys back is turned and we’re in public and he’s not in my house at 1 a.m. (to me implying seemingly more nefarious intentions, which is probably I’ll guided) I’m not gonna just draw and shoot him in the back, but I don’t want to draw and have him turn around and shoot me cause I demanded him to drop the gun. I also don’t feel right letting a innocent person get shot over $100 in the register when I possibly had the means to prevent it.
Honestly, in a public place my first instinct would be to remove myself from the area as quickly and safely as possible.
 

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@gwallis Your last sentence says it all. Some boldly proclaim they will always only protect themselves and everyone else is at the mercy of the potential killer. That is a fine position for bravado, but in real life, at least those I have worked with, insist that if they had it all to do over again, they would act differently. The end result of having the ability to prevent someone dying, and doing nothing about it, is just too terrible to contemplate.
 

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You are under no obligation or expectation to defend others, especially those unknown to you. That is going to be your decision to take, based upon the laws of your state of course.
Absolutely true. However, I'm remembering a video format force-on-force class I took at the NRA HQ in Fairfax. Similar "second in line at the cash register" situation. I didn't draw because the BG looked like he got what he came for and was leaving.

But then the BG shot the clerk and immediately turned around and shot me. Had I drawn and fired at first sight of the gun, I would have saved the clerk's life and mine. Yes, it was a simulation, but not an unrealistic one, I think. My guess is some bad guys pretend they are not going to shoot in order to gain compliance, but once they get what they want, they don't want witnesses.
 

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What if you miss and hit the victim? You still need to be aware of who or what is beyond your target. Changing your angle of fire toward the perp is good thing. Also good is finding a place of cover before challenging. In the store clerk scenario I might be inclined to take cover (or at least concealment) and monitor the situation to see if the perp looks like he's going to shoot even after getting the money. As OldChap said, it depends.
 
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What if you miss and hit the victim? You still need to be aware of who or what is beyond your target. Changing your angle of fire toward the perp is good thing. Also good is finding a place of cover before challenging. In the store clerk scenario I might be inclined to take cover (or at least concealment) and monitor the situation to see if the perp looks like he's going to shoot even after getting the money. As OldChap said, it depends.
I agree it depends. But in the force-on-force scenario I described, there was no "looking like he's going to shoot." He just shot the clerk and me, bang, bang. I think the learning with that scenario is how fast it can happen. And there isn't much cover or even concealment near the register in a lot of stores. But everyone has to decide in the moment.

I really liked the video force-on-force because it was pretty realistic. The lessons burn into your brain almost like they actually happened.
 

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This is a question that is next to impossible to answer. The best answer is IT DEPENDS. That means there are dozens of factors that are specific to each different situation.

You should start with the particular laws of your state - and please, download a copy of your state laws in pdf form and read them through first. Do not trust what someone tells you on the internet, unless they are a lawyer licensed to practice criminal law in your state, and willing to take you as a client.

In the final analysis, the bottom line is simple: If you believe you may have to shoot (and your state laws allow for defense of a third party) draw your weapon and move quietly and quickly to a position of cover. If the situation is otherwise, do not draw, just seek cover.


Welcome to DC by the way, from the Texas Gulf Coast.
I would add, join your local state organization. In Georgia the real organization is Georgia Packing. Most states that I am aware of have a state pro-2A organization that will be able to give you up-to-date information on the rules and regulations specific to you in that state. NRA is often woefully out-of-date on the advice they give for Georgia (easy to understand since they haven't been actively involved in any of the 2A initiative here in years) and other online sources can be just as out of date.
 
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Guy pulls a gun threatening a clerk and I'm behind him? Draw and stick the muzzle in his ear commanding to set the gun down on the counter. ANY furtive movement on his part, he's gonna need a hearing aid after a head transplant.

Why would I put the gun to his head? Because that's the quickest way for him to stop his aggression and deadly force upon the clerk and subsequently every other patron in the immediate AO, INCLUDING myself. I'm certainly not going to stand there like a dumb arse and hope he gets the money and walks away. That's a chance I don't need to take and temp fate.

Will I answer for those actions in court later? Maybe, but I'm known to elucidate clearly that the 3 prongs of deadly force use were present.
 

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I had that exact scenario happen to me one night about 2am at a Speedway in Lex Ky.

I had been moonlighting at a security gig, and was on my way home. I had the munchies so I stopped inside to get bag of chips and a Pepsi, and I was the only one inside the store.
While I was looking around by the isle where the chips were, a male subject came in, but I didn’t yet see him or think anything about it. I changed my mind on the chips, and was going to just pick up a candy bar at the checkout, and I saw the cashier with and noticed the strange way he was acting.
The guydoing the hold up wasn’t showing the gun from my vantage point, but I could hear his demands for the money.

I sat the Pepsi down in the isle I was in and drew my weapon, which at the time was a Springfield LW Gov Model. Back then, I didn’t think about my safety too much so I walked up behind him, and stick the barrel in the back of his head, and told him if he even twitched, he was going to lose his skull cap.

I then directed him to lay the weapon on the counter, take two steps back , and prone out. At this time he complied and we stepped back together. When he went to bend over to lay on the floor, I had the presence of mind to step back and cover him from a safer distance.
I made the arrest, and did the paperwork getting me home later than I wanted.

I have looked back at stuff like that, all the time, and always think about what if’s and what I could have done differently that would be better.
One thing is I would not have walked up to contact distance, among other things.


Today? I would just try to be a good witness unless I wasn’t given that opportunity by the subject. My objectives and directives in life do not require me to do anything.
 

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"where I’m at, if someone breaks into my house they’re fair game for responding with deadly force. No getting their attention is necessary".

In my home state, you are obligated to attempt to retreat in that scenario.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I had that exact scenario happen to me one night about 2am at a Speedway in Lex Ky.

I had been moonlighting at a security gig, and was on my way home. I had the munchies so I stopped inside to get bag of chips and a Pepsi, and I was the only one inside the store.
While I was looking around by the isle where the chips were, a male subject came in, but I didn’t yet see him or think anything about it. I changed my mind on the chips, and was going to just pick up a candy bar at the checkout, and I saw the cashier with and noticed the strange way he was acting.
The guydoing the hold up wasn’t showing the gun from my vantage point, but I could hear his demands for the money.

I sat the Pepsi down in the isle I was in and drew my weapon, which at the time was a Springfield LW Gov Model. Back then, I didn’t think about my safety too much so I walked up behind him, and stick the barrel in the back of his head, and told him if he even twitched, he was going to lose his skull cap.

I then directed him to lay the weapon on the counter, take two steps back , and prone out. At this time he complied and we stepped back together. When he went to bend over to lay on the floor, I had the presence of mind to step back and cover him from a safer distance.
I made the arrest, and did the paperwork getting me home later than I wanted.

I have looked back at stuff like that, all the time, and always think about what if’s and what I could have done differently that would be better.
One thing is I would not have walked up to contact distance, among other things.


Today? I would just try to be a good witness unless I wasn’t given that opportunity by the subject. My objectives and directives in life do not require me to do anything.
Thanks for the insight, the way you handled it is how I initially assumed I would approach the situation, and your sorry helps cause my curiosity mainly surrounds how “bad guys” realistically react (on the average) to the surprise of a gun pressed against them and commands, which your story helps address.
 
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