Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
In a recent class the instructer demonstrated a loading technique that was somewhat different from my own. He stated that (for a right handed shooter) when the slide locks back after the last bullet - you would:

1. pull the gun in close to the body.
2. Hit the mag release with the weak side thumb.
3. then reach down to reload from the weak / left side hand, then
4. Recover the target while simultaneously closing the slide with the left side thumb.

The only part I have trouble with is the part where you release the mag with the left hand --- then use the same hand to reach down for another magazine. In practice, I am much quicker using my (right) strong hand thumb to release the magazine while at the same time reaching down for my spare mag with my left hand.

The reason I was told I should not use my strong hand to release the mag is that then you give up your grip on the gun and when you reposition it, it will be different and will shoot different.

(Hope that was clear?)

What is the consensus on how to properly and effeicently do a tactical reload?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,685 Posts
A true tactical reload wouldn't involve this step:
4. Recover the target (while simultaneously closing the slide with the left side thumb).
There should still be a round in the chamber while you change magazines, so no need to release the slide.
Using the weak hand thumb to press the release makes sense in a way, but I don't think I could get accustomed to that. I always use my strong hand thumb for the release while reaching for my next magazine at a match.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,147 Posts
A true tactical reload wouldn't involve this step:
4. Recover the target (while simultaneously closing the slide with the left side thumb).
There should still be a round in the chamber while you change magazines, so no need to release the slide.
Not to mention the fact that in a real fight you wouldn't be doing a tac reload if there's a target available for you to "Recover". If there's a BG visible, you ought to be shooting to slide lock, not doing a tac reload.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,076 Posts
There is nothing tactical about a reload.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You are correct. I actually did not mean a "tactical reload." What I am talking about is after all the bullets are spent and the slide is locked back. sorry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
I would use whatever technique you've practiced and are comfortable with.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,253 Posts
I am not a trainer or instructor, just a guy that's been shooting for a little bit that has had the opportunity to get some good to excellent training from various sources, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

1. pull the gun in close to the body.

I have to ask why? Once you are reloaded it's faster if the gun is already "out there" pointing in the general direction of the target. This makes sense, the pulling the gun in close, if one is reloading a revolver, but not with an autoloader, IMHO. I do my revolver reloads at my belt.

2. Hit the mag release with the weak side thumb.

I understand the reasoning, regarding the firing grip, but I do disagree with it. The fastest I've found is to have the magazine release positioned for the opposite hand and using the trigger finger to manipulate the magazine release. Also, if you shoot to slide-lock you may need to reacquire your firing grip, and manipulating your magazine release with the firing hand allows you to do this.

3. then reach down to reload from the weak / left side hand, then

I don't hit the magazine release until I have a loaded magazine in my hand. The less time I have the magazine out of the gun the more effective I can be.

4. Recover the target while simultaneously closing the slide with the left side thumb.

I do close the slide with my thumb while reobtaining my grip. On this I will agree 100% with your Instructor. When I'm shooting left handed I bring my right hand under the gun to manipulate the slide stop. As far as recovering the target, the gun never should've left the target to begin with. I will rotate the gun to about a 45 degree angle during a magazine change, but it stays out there at the end of my arm.

I won't go so far as to call your Instructor an idiot, as he or she most likely has a valid reason for teaching the way they do. I will say that I have expirmented with the way your Instructor is teaching, and find that it's not for me.

Biker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
I'm going to be faster hitting the mag release with my strong hand, same for releasing the slide lock. I might work for your instructor, but mucle memory and practice trump classroom learning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,712 Posts
Putting aside the debate over what the correct term for this type of reload is, I'll offer my semi-informed opinion.

1. pull the gun in close to the body.

Ok, as long is you mean into your "work space," with firing side elbow close to the body, weapon just below your line of sight and still oriented at the threat (though slightly canted to facilitate accepting the new mag). To answer BikerRNs question, this position gives you more strength if you should need it to manipulate the slide (or whatever), is more "natural" for most people when performing the somewhat complex movements of a fast reload. Operating with your strong arm fully extended feels awkward to many folks, and takes much more time to train to.

2. Hit the mag release with the weak side thumb.

No. Not even a little bit. In the first place, if you are using a two-handed grip, you are already breaking that grip in order to reach for the new mag; using my strong hand thumb (which sits right on top of the mag release anyway, on my Sigs and Glocks) causes less disruption of my grip and is also faster. Second, and perhaps more importantly, is this - who says you are going to have two hands on your gun? Yes, that's how we train, but many people default to a one handed shooting grip under even the simulated stress of force-on-force training. Plus, you could have been using your off hand to manipulate something such as a door or light switch, carrying groceries, pushing off the attacker, or any number of other scenarios. Training yourself to require two hands to release your mag is bad ju-ju, IMO.

3. then reach down to reload from the weak / left side hand, then

I am hitting the mag release and moving to draw my new mag simultaneously, while also pulling the pistol back into my "work space," - all three things are going on at the same time, so no time is wasted. Assuming we are at slide lock, my weapon is useless with or without the mag in it - why wait until I have my new mag in hand to drop the empty, useless one? What if there is an issue with the mag falling free (common with some Glock and other polymer mags)? What if it isn't slide lock, but some sort of malfunction that I must now use both hands to clear? If I already have a new mag in hand, what am I going to do with it if I find I need my other hand to get the gun back up? (Note that if I am simply putting a full mag in to replace a partially depleted one, I do as BikerRN does and keep the partial in until the full is up next to the gun.)

4. Recover the target while simultaneously closing the slide with the left side thumb.

I train not to use the slide stop at all, but to use the "slingshot" technique. I do, however, also train to use the slide stop if I am shooting one handed (and I train that way quite a bit) because, as noted above, there are many situations where my off hand may be needed for other tasks. That said, I would never use my off hand to manipulate the slide stop for the reasons already stated (slower, more awkward for me, requires two hands.

I have never had an instructor teach that particular method, and while I won't call it idiotic, I will say that it is a minority opinion in my experience. A minority of one, in fact...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
Applying a revised technique to an old design isn’t new. However, adapting to this method would be very difficult for those that have trained in a more conventional manner. It's been said that we revert to our lowest level of training under stress.
Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,147 Posts
1. pull the gun in close to the body.

Ok, as long is you mean into your "work space," with firing side elbow close to the body, weapon just below your line of sight and still oriented at the threat (though slightly canted to facilitate accepting the new mag). To answer BikerRNs question, this position gives you more strength if you should need it to manipulate the slide (or whatever), is more "natural" for most people when performing the somewhat complex movements of a fast reload. Operating with your strong arm fully extended feels awkward to many folks, and takes much more time to train to.
Reloading in close also makes it more difficult for someone to grab your gun. With the gun close to your body they have to get closer to get their hands on it. It also gives you more options for hand-to-hand retention techniques.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
If you fire to slide lock:
Immediately, hit the mag release with your strong side thumb, your weak hand ought to be ripping the empty mag out of the pistol. Drop the empty mag, secure and load a new mag with the weak hand. Come over the top of the slide (utilize gross motor skills) with the weak hand and chamber a round.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,213 Posts
Here is a link to all the info you need to know about practicing reloads; it is an old shooting comrade, Dave Sevigny demonstrating some IDPA drills, among them reloads. I guarantee you that he and others perfected these techniques shooting with the USPSA crowd, who by far are the fastest reloaders around....

Enjoy

YouTube - IDPA Drills
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
as I recall there are three types of reloads:

1. Administrative - at home, at office or range - leisurely, without stress or imminent danger, loading cartridges into the firearm

2. Tactical - lull in the battle, all visible hostiles down, usually done from cover if available, can just be topping off gun for next round

3. Emergency - slide locks back on semi-auto, or revolver goes click due to all cartridges being fired, may still be hostiles fighting - maneuvering to get you - this is the one you had better get right!

:danceban:

do what makes sense to you, but practice, practice and practice, this is almost as important as hitting your target...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,076 Posts
I have one type of reload. It's a reload. There are certain reasons to reload, but none of them are caught up in terminology. Just put more rounds in the damn gun and keep shooting. Instructors always want to complicate things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,177 Posts
The difference between a reload and a tactical reload is how much money you paid somebody to use the word tactical
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Tactical reload means exactly as stated by MR. D - After firing several rounds, and you have a chance, pull out a fresh mag with your weak hand, and release the mag that is in the gun grabbing it with your pinky and ring finger, then insert the fresh mag and replace the semi-used mag in a different pocket for use later when you run low. This way you are topped off with a fresh mag.

I am a lefty shooter. I keep my mag release on the traditional side for 2 reasons. 1st, I tried it on the right side, and every time I fired, it released the mag. The 2nd reason is, I personaly think that the mag release should be on your trigger finger side, and here is why.

When you release the mag with your thumb, you have to cant the weapon away from the target, but, if it is on your trigger finger side you can use your index finger, or like I do with my Glock, use your middle finger to release, and the muzzle stays dead on target.

You should keep you weapon straight out, and on target (unless they are real close) and NEVER take you eyes off your opponent. Fighter pilots have a saying, "Lose Sight, Lose the Fight".

Something else to remember, if someone is pointing a gun at you, think, and say out loud if you need to break that trance, the word "MOVE". Don't stand there and let them aim at a stationary target.

Find COVER!!!!!!!!!
Which means an object that a bullet cannot pass through.
Cars (unless it is the engine block), sheetrock walls, bushes, thin tables, etc., are NOT cover.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Here is a link to all the info you need to know about practicing reloads; it is an old shooting comrade, Dave Sevigny demonstrating some IDPA drills, among them reloads. I guarantee you that he and others perfected these techniques shooting with the USPSA crowd, who by far are the fastest reloaders around....
I wouldn't argue against you in a competition scenerio. But, do you really want to take the chance of missing the relatively small (when compared to a slide), slide stop in a defensive situation? Same arguement as far as ripping the magazine out. Admittingly, it is rarely ever an issue since magazines usually pop right out. But, it only needs to stick once.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top