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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I saw this headline and my first thought was to recall the "Knockout Game." If your training includes taking a beating vs drawing early, this might be worth a read.
There might be no opportunity to fight back if you wait.


Utah referee punched by soccer player in coma | Fox News
 

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I don't know of any training programs which teach drawing to beat the sucker punch. What would you suggest?
 

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Don't know of anyone who recommends taking a beat down before defending themselves, but before drawing you need to make sure the threat is there.

Hopefully this gentleman will have a full recovery from his injuries.
 

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Unacceptable behavior on the part of the attacker, but also highlights the need to maintain good SA, especially given that he's been attacked previously while doing this activity.
 

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No matter how much you train, practice, prepare and have a world classe SA attitude there are times you are going to get it handed to you. I've known of black belts being taken out with one punch from a untrained guy. There is times it just not your day.
 

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i dont quite get how this article matches what you are saying...this was a a youth recreational soccer league game and he got sucker punched. first i would not draw on a child unless they drew on me first. second, they said he was jotting down notes and the kid came from behind and sucker punched him in the side of the head. there is nothing he could have done to prevent this if he had a gun. i dont know of any training that tells you to take a beating before pulling your gun. you only draw your weapon if there is a direct threat against you or your family that could cause serious bodily harm or death and i would not consider a youth a threat unless they had a weapon. there is no way of the ref knowing that a punch coming from a youth would cause what it did, even if he did see what was coming.
 

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That really sucks. You have to feel for the family. You can't do much about being sucker punched.
 

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I don't know of any training programs which teach drawing to beat the sucker punch.
I've also never lived in a place where the statues require a person to "take a beating" before refusing via appropriate force.

IMO, the plethora of stories such as this merely reinforce the reality: a punch can kill; a fall to the concrete from such a punch can kill; and these roving gangs of people perpetrating such thing represent a clear disparity of force and clear threat of serious injury or death. To my way of thinking, the use-of-force statutes support appropriate responses by citizens already, in nearly all states' statutes that I've seen.

As the OP rightly points out: there might well be no fighting back, if a person waits until no circumspection, precaution, preparation to defend or actual defense is possible.
 

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I saw this headline and my first thought was to recall the "Knockout Game." If your training includes taking a beating vs drawing early, this might be worth a read.
There might be no opportunity to fight back if you wait.


Utah referee punched by soccer player in coma | Fox News
What are you trying to say here? This was not a confrontation, it was a blind sided sucker punch. Quite honestly I do not see an analogy here or a learning lesson. It is a news story that has zero to do with guns and self defense.

EDIT:The only thing you might be able to squeeze out of this as a learning lesson is to keep ones SA up and to recognize if someone might get hostlile.

But other than that I have no clue.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
there might well be no fighting back, if a person waits until no circumspection, precaution, preparation to defend or actual defense is possible.
This is getting at my original point. I should have used the word "mindset" instead of "training" as well. The meat of the matter is to keep in mind that a fist IS a potentailly deadly weapon. "SA, SA, SA" and I am of the opinion that since a BG already has a plan, mine should be to get my weapon out of the holster early, not to wave it around and yell, just to get it out and hold it inconspicuously down by my leg. I suspect any BG worth his salt would notice that and move on. No shot, no paperwork.

Ever watch the Knockout Game youtubes? The victims just blithely meander right up to groups of teenagers that are obviuosly out for kicks. See them coming, make an effort to change your course and avoid a close pass.
 

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This is getting at my original point. I should have used the word "mindset" instead of "training" as well. The meat of the matter is to keep in mind that a fist IS a potentailly deadly weapon. "SA, SA, SA" and I am of the opinion that since a BG already has a plan, mine should be to get my weapon out of the holster early, not to wave it around and yell, just to get it out and hold it inconspicuously down by my leg. I suspect any BG worth his salt would notice that and move on. No shot, no paperwork.
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Personally I think a better plan is to not allow yourself to be part of the BG's plan at all. I'm not trying to disparage what you wrote but you can't just pull out your pistol and walk around with it in hand, no matter how discrete you believe it is. Most states have laws against brandishing and if the person(s) you believe to be the BGs aren't that at all, they may call the police and you could easily find yourself with a weapons charge. If you believe yourself to be in a vulnerable position, then your first priority should be to improve that position. If you allow yourself to be put in a scenario that has potential dangers then, to some extent, you have to realize that you've chosen to be there and you must accept some of the risk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
TX, I completely agree that the best solution is not to be there. That's exactly why I mention changing course in the knockout game scenario. And I am certainly not advocating drawing in a crowded public square. It's the lonely gas station/shopping center parking lot that would seem to be the most fertile hunting ground a BG might use. When your SA tells you you are being stalked, don't wait until you have received the first strike to do something. That is why the referee story can be instructive, because waiting for a BG to commit might be your last decision.

Your observations are completely sound, and I appreciate the input.
 
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How you carry yourself, and the resolve in your heart will let the potential aggressor know if you are a soft or hard target. I have worked with these animals long enough to be able to tell you this with absolute 100% certainty.

They know if you are real or putting on. And they can smell what kind of "dog" is in you. Very much like the real animal world.
 

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I've been sucker punched twice - I'm 6'4" and 270 lbs, so most sane people wouldn't confront me face to face. Both were years ago, when I used to put myself in situations where there were unsavory characters (don't step foot in bars anymore).

Anywho, you have little time to react, especially when it comes flying in from the side or from behind. In one of the incidents, the guy hit me over the head with a metal trash can (pro wrestling style). This came from over my left shoulder. I had absolutely no time to react, much less draw (if I had been carrying at that time). Luckily it didn't knock me out because he was about a foot shorter and my shoulder took most of the blow. He took off running when he saw it only stunned me.

There's not much else you can do besides keep facing the crowd (or if walking - keep your head up and not down looking at your phone), and stay away from places where stuff like this tends to happen (where there is drinking involved).

Also, this is a good lesson to small of back holster lovers - if you fall on that gun positioned behind your spine - best case is you can't get to it in time, worst case is you screw up your spine.
 

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How you carry yourself, and the resolve in your heart will let the potential aggressor know if you are a soft or hard target. I have worked with these animals long enough to be able to tell you this with absolute 100% certainty.

They know if you are real or putting on. And they can smell what kind of "dog" is in you. Very much like the real animal world.
It is the real animal world.
 

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I don't know of any training programs which teach drawing to beat the sucker punch. What would you suggest?
Perhaps I first saw it on The Wire. "Anybody can get got." I think most of us strive hard not to be got. That mindset enhances our odds. But the reality of the strong improbability of being 100% 24/7/365 is always out there lurking.
 

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Perhaps I first saw it on The Wire. "Anybody can get got." I think most of us strive hard not to be got. That mindset enhances our odds. But the reality of the strong improbability of being 100% 24/7/365 is always out there lurking.
Was there a suggestion to drawing to beat the sucker punch in there somewhere?
 

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...Ever watch the Knockout Game youtubes? The victims just blithely meander right up to groups of teenagers that are obviuosly out for kicks. See them coming, make an effort to change your course and avoid a close pass.
Unfortunately many have now been "trained" to not walk away from a group, especially if the group includes minorities. To do so would be "offensive."

I'm not saying certain ethnicities engage disproportionally in these types of assaults. What I am saying is that often nowadays when we see a potential threat we may discount it if avoiding it could be viewed as being "insensitive."

See a group of ******* shabby punks walking up to you? If you walk away you're an elitist. Other scenarios you can fill in.

I'm certain some people are putting themselves in danger by trying to appear "enlightened." Walk straight toward the group, don't go into a defensive posture, and above all smile and nod your head politely.
 
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