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Discussion Starter #1
This is actually a serious thread.
This just happened here in New Castle, PA. and is a nice "concealed carry"
What Would YOU Do???
Me Thinks...you are not going to be able to keep your concealed firearm concealed for very long...being forced to remove all of your clothing at gunpoint.
This web newspaper article is somewhat incomplete.
In actuality one young woman (a tavern employee) who was 7 months pregnant politely refused to remove her clothing & she was taken outside with the armed robber when he exited the building...but was (thankfully) released outside.
So we have a situation where armed BGs are willing to fire shots & they expect everybody to strip down naked.
That would likely force me into a guaranteed firefight confrontation.
It would seem to me that as soon as your concealed firearm was spotted you would likely be shot.
What say you?
By The Way...In Pennsylvania Licensed Concealed Carry in a bar or establishment that serves booze is 100% Perfectly Legal.
Read the story...Your Comments and Opinions Are Always Welcome.

Armed Robber Forces Bar Patrons To Strip
No Injuries Reported
POSTED: 2:53 pm EDT May 4, 2005
UPDATED: 3:12 pm EDT May 4, 2005

NEW CASTLE, Pa. -- A man forced a group of bar patrons to take off all of their clothes before he robbed the tavern and its customers, police said.

The robber fired a shot into the ceiling of Kacey's Playhouse, a tavern in Shenango Township, before closing time early Tuesday, then demanded that the bartender hand over the money in the register and his tip money, police said.

He also ordered about seven customers in the tavern to strip off their clothes and hand over their money and jewelry, police said.

Jernell J. Vernon, 28, of Youngstown, Ohio, was arrested about 30 minutes after the robbery, based on information from witnesses, police said.

John H. Chatman, 34, also of Youngstown, Ohio., accused of driving a getaway car, was also arrested.

Both were charged with armed robbery, criminal conspiracy and other offenses.

Vernon and Chatman were held in the Lawrence County Jail Tuesday.
 

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As said above i also think if he see's it im getting shot so i would rather show it my way than his way and take my chances.
 

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clubsoda22 said:
If he sees my gun that pretty much means i'm getting shot at. Might as well have him see the gun on my terms.
Ditto! Not much else to be said. :eek:k:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The POLICE on TV concerning "The Order To Strip"

At this point the Police are not exactly sure why the patrons were told to strip off their clothes.
They have guessed that it was either a shock/intimidation action. AKA "I have the weapon and the power ~ I hold all of the cards and I subjugate you ~ You will do whatever I tell you to do" or....just to make it tougher for anybody to follow them out.
The Police are not sure at this point in time.
Since you'll NEVER know in advance exactly how any possible future bad event will "Go Down" & only know that it will NEVER be exactly as you expect...Please practice a swift draw. Be able to gain access to your defensive firearm in a lightning big hurry.
Either constantly practice FAST "aimed fire" or accurate reactive "point & shoot" ~ Learn to be an accomplished shooter & Stay Alive. Do not tolerate or be satisfied with any weapon retention system that will not allow you instant access to your concealed carry firearm. You may carry it for 20 years and never need it BUT...when you do need it you're probably going to need it RIGHT NOW! ~ A word to the wise should be sufficient.
 

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I agree with the above posts that you pretty much have to make a move. I have two thoughts: If I was wearing two layers of concealment, like a windbreaker over a sweatshirt, I'd take my strong side arm out first, then hold the windbreaker in front of me to conceal my draw as I appeared to be taking my other arm out. If I only had one layer on, I'd start by emptying my pockets, taking off my watch, etc., and throwing them on the floor. Hopefully the bad guy would be looking at the loot pile or one of the other patrons as I brought my gun into action.

I'd be willing to bet that we will see some "copy cat" crimes. Any time something like this gets media attention, some other feeble minds want to jump on the bandwagon. :rolleyes2

SSKC
 

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In a case such as this--- YOU GOT TO DRAW AND FIRE !! The plus side (if any) is that the BG has allowed you to begin movement,all of you at once. He will have a hard time watching all of you. You should be able to gain a few moves on him. When his attention is the fartherest from you,draw and put at least two shots in him. KILL HIM !! Also I would never allow him to take a female with him/outside if I still had a weapon. -----
 

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I agree - this is a no choice situation. Indeed, the flurry of movements as folks start to obey - should enable a draw and engagement. No way can this be allowed to continue - he has gun - shot in ceiling, so not a fake.

This guy needs taken out pronto. An on the surface of it - 100% legit too.
 

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I agree with ya all. Seems a garment concealing draw if possible would be the best choice, if yer gonna be discovered anyway. I would think a garment covered first shot might be a good idea if within point shoot range(most likely) , especially if there are more than 1 of em.
 

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A shot has been fired and your concealment has been called, so I agree with the others that you have no choice but to respond. If I were carrying tucked, the instruction gives me the perfect opportunity to pull out my shirttail. My typical draw starts out looking just like I'm taking out a wallet. I think I would empty a pocket first, so my movement was similar to the others, and then make as if to remove my wallet. Depending on the layout, I'd be wanting to move laterally to a clear line of fire.
 

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SSKC said:
I agree with the above posts that you pretty much have to make a move. I have two thoughts: If I was wearing two layers of concealment, like a windbreaker over a sweatshirt, I'd take my strong side arm out first, then hold the windbreaker in front of me to conceal my draw as I appeared to be taking my other arm out. If I only had one layer on, I'd start by emptying my pockets, taking off my watch, etc., and throwing them on the floor. Hopefully the bad guy would be looking at the loot pile or one of the other patrons as I brought my gun into action.
I'd hate to be tangled up in my clothing if this guy starts shooting. there's lot's of people there, he's not focusing just on you. just draw, move, fire.
 

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Seems to me that...

...you couldn't ask for a better set of circumstances if you had to draw against a drawn gun. He has just given a bunch of people the order to start fiddling with their clothing. You drawing your gun will look just like all of the other people trying to comply. He'll be dead before he even knows his plan is falling apart.
 

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Really Impressive As Heck

That is what you folks Are!
I've never seen a more continious line of proper responses. All right in a row!
Makes me proud to be a part of this forum.
:unitedsta:congrats:
 

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Yeah, He's helped you all he can(the BG). Now you got to help yourself. The other side of the coin would be"raise your hands,if you move even just a little I will kill you." Now your palms are way up here and your weapon is way down there. Unless EVERYBODY draws at once your pretty much SOL.-------
 

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Discussion Starter #15
RSSZ ~ Good Worthy Comment!

"Yeah, He's helped you all he can (the BG). Now you got to help yourself."
 

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Of possible scenarios, This is one I would prefer

You also have a few moments to put together your own plan. Once people start moving, You do the same. You will have about five seconds to take of your jacket, and then you will draw behind it. That is just enough time to figure where to take cover, and your priority of fires if there are multiple BG's. You can even take an innocent step or two back while doing so in order to buy yourself some distance.

You have time, and even a fair degree of initiative. While you cannot choose your terrain, you can take advantage of what you have. Your movements are obfuscated, and the BG has revealed both his location and activity.

Seriously; This is about as good as you can realistically get it. Say a prayer, clear leather, and drop the hammer.
 

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Actually, I think there is an advantage to "raising" your hands, it you do it smartly. I.e. if told to do so, you can raise your hands to your chest level, palms out and look scared. It will appear you are cooperating and the BG MAY be satisfied and focus his attention elsewhere.

I regularly practice drawing from this innocent looking, "raised" hand position and actually find the hands are in a much better position to sweep away a cover garment and draw the gun than if I start from a hands down position.

Another benefit is you couldn't have a much better hand position to start from to defend yourself, or attack from, if H2H is suddenly needed. And finally, it is just sooo sneaky!
 

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If I'm in a similiar situation where my CC is exposed, I concur: you have no choice but to engage. I will NOT surrender my weapon without a fight and I will NOT keep it holstered in a situation like this!

For the record, bars and restaurants that serve alcohol are 'off-limits' to CCW license holders in OH.
 

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Draw while using people in front of you to cover your movements. Head shot, then follow up to the torso.
 
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