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The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part I

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#1 ·
The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part I

A serious look at making the open carry operator as squared away as they can possible be.


I know there are people out there that believe that I am “anti-open carry.” This is not really the truth of the matter. What I am is “anti-ignorance” and I admit that I am very hard core in this belief. For those that know and train with me, they know why I am like that. They know that I really care about their ability to be the very best they can be when it comes down to the ability to defend their lives and the lives of their loved ones. To me, this is the paramount reason that we carry and any other reason pales in comparison.

I do not carry for a political agenda, or because it is my right, or because I want to be a hero, or because I want the mere presence of the gun to stop a crime, or because of the coolness factor, or to educate people, or the stir up awareness. I carry for one reason and one reason only.

I carry to be the very best that I can be inside of a life threatening encounter involving myself or my loved ones!

Everyone can feel free to call that “one way” or “self centered” but the reality of the matter is that “me and mine” are more important than everyone else. That does not mean that I will not risk my life to help innocent people, heck I’ve done it before on a few occasions. What it does mean is that I want to have the choice whether I get involved or not. Open carry cuts down on my options.

Any attack on me is an attack on my loved ones. I am the one that keeps them in good neighborhoods. I am the one that keeps them in good schools, I am the one that keeps them from hanging out with the wrong people, I am the one that keeps them away from drugs, alcohol, crime, teenage pregnancies, and especially the violence that comes out of those issues. I am the one that instills “the three stupid rule” into them. You will be amazed how living with “the three stupid rule” as a guide will cut down on your violent encounters.

Do not go stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things.

The importance of a solid parental figure inside of the home can be the difference between life and death for the children inside of that home. That has been my reality! I lost my older sister at 28 years old due to the life style that we had led as children and young adults. Living outside of “the three stupid rule” as we did, for over thirteen years, cost her her life. She made decisions at thirteen years old that were not survivable. I spent thirteen years of my life protecting her and my family from the extremely violent world that she brought into our lives. Never underestimate the value of a strong parental figure inside of the home. As the parent, no matter how important that you think that you are, you are much more important than that. You can be the difference between your children living or dying…….and that is a fact!

IMHO, as a parent or future parent, you should have one mission that overrides all other missions. That mission is to go home and take care of your family. I do not need to be a hero, I do not need to push a political agenda, I do not need to educate anyone about their rights. All I need to do is go home and make sure that my family has everything that I can give them, to give them the ability to acquire the very best life that they can have. I did not fight my way out of the gutter to have my children need to do the very same thing.

This is why I am so vocal on the issue of being the very best that you can be inside of a life threatening encounter. This is why I risk being seen as an “anti-open carry” guy, even though I am not. All I want is for people to get the best information so that they can make the best choices for themselves and their love ones. All I care about is you fulfilling your paramount mission.

Now that people have some insight on “why I do what I do” how about we look at the things that will allow you to be the very best that you can be while open carrying.

The Gun is not a Talisman that wards off Evil

I think it is time for us all to agree, without having to call for links to prove it, the mere presence of a gun may stop a crime from ever being committed. On the flip side we need to agree that the presence of the gun may also be the catalyst of the crime that is committed. Yes, there are plenty of cases that show that people were targeted for their guns……..in their homes and on their person. This is all well documented and backed by common sense. Once we understand this, it becomes very clear that carrying a gun (open or concealed) comes with certain responsibilities. If the gun is a deterrent, not having the teeth to use it efficiently and effectively is like bluffing while playing poker. If you carry (open or concealed) you need to know how to use it efficiently and effectively. You do not want to bluff while holding one ace! If I am concealed, I never have anyone “call” my bluff because I am not bluffing. But if I am open carrying I am always in the position to be “called.” This means that if you decide to open carry you may need a higher skill level than those that carry concealed. Since the gun is visible, you may be in the position where you are more likely forced to use it.

With concealed carry I have more of an option to get involved or to not get involved. Since no one knows that I am carrying, I will be less likely to have my hand force. I can make the rational decisions, on what to do based on “my mission.” I can watch the confrontation unfold and make the decision “when” or even “if” I go on the offensive. This is what people are talking about when they talk about “the tactical advantage.” This is all about the manipulation of the OODA loop, understanding “initiative” and the huge problems inside of “initiative deficit.” Once again this leads us to the point that open carry individuals may need a higher skill level and tactical understanding than those that carry concealed.

Simply put, action beats reaction! So many gun people do not understand this fact. Until you experience this firsthand you will not understand just how far behind you are most likely going to be. Open carry requires that you have your situational awareness tuned to a higher level, your “line in the sand” drawn clearer, your ability to work through the OODA loop quicker, and that your skill sets inside of the reactive gunfight at a higher level. You may be quicker getting your gun into play (depending on your mode of carry) due to not having a concealment garment, but that may not be even close to being good enough.

If the open carry gun deters the crime from ever taking place……great! But this is something that you cannot rely on. Crimes can also be deterred just by the way you carry yourself and how you handle yourself. There is one stat that will never be sure of, how many times is a crime deterred because of an open carry gun, compared to how many crimes are deterred due to being deselected due to the way you handle yourself and how you carry yourself.

You may also want to consider getting some information about the streets. There are certain neighborhoods in Las Vegas where open carry may be seen as a sign of disrespect to the criminal organization that controls those neighborhoods. I know we all want to “go where ever I want to go.” But, is it really smart to fly the one finger salute in the most dangerous neighborhoods in Vegas, to the most dangerous people in Vegas. Going to those areas cover the “going stupid places” which makes you “the stupid person, doing the stupid thing.” Open carry requires a little more discretion than concealed carry. Education about the streets can be had, if you know where to look.
 
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#2 ·
An excellent post, truly. The only section I take issue with is this:

On the flip side we need to agree that the presence of the gun may also be the catalyst of the crime that is committed. Yes, there are plenty of cases that show that people were targeted for their guns……..in their homes and on their person. This is all well documented and backed by common sense..
That's a pretty bold statement, and you're really going to need to back that up with some source material. I will conceded that LEOs are often targeted, and that people's homes are broken into on a regular basis, if it's known that guns are stored there. But, in all my years of legal carry, I've only ever heard of one instance where Average Joe the Open Carrier was targeted for an attack.

But, the rest of your post was right on the money. Everyone on this forum should give it a good read.
 
#3 ·
An excellent post, truly. The only section I take issue with is this:



That's a pretty bold statement, and you're really going to need to back that up with some source material. I will conceded that LEOs are often targeted, and that people's homes are broken into on a regular basis, if it's known that guns are stored there. But, in all my years of legal carry, I've only ever heard of one instance where Average Joe the Open Carrier was targeted for an attack.

But, the rest of your post was right on the money. Everyone on this forum should give it a good read.
It is not really bold at all! It is common knowledge for those that have studied self defense indepth.

All you have to do is look at one of the most well documented and famous gunfights ever and find out where the bad guys got their weapons. April 11, 1986 Miami FBI shoot out. Platt and Matix got their weapons by targeting people with guns at gun ranges.
 
#4 · (Edited)
This is from a student of mine......

.....he has had to fight for his life before and when he tells the story in person you know that his life was in jeopardy.

At the range
At the range Monday , firing my new Glock Model 36 , the creek had flooded the range up to the 50 yard berm. I had the range to mayself and was firing the new pistol. Then I noticed a truck drive up and 2 guys get out and start walking towards me, they were Mexicans--with MANY tattoos. So I reloaded my pistol and said "Hi, " the one on the left had his hand behind his back and under his shirt, the guy on the right who was smaller, had his hand in his pocket.The range is isolated from the Rangemasters house.I had my pistol in hand , they walked towards me and asked about joining the range . I told them they would need to go and talk to the Rangemaster who live in the house. The little guy started to walk to my right and the big guy stood there. I moved to my right and didnt let them enclose me. They asked what kind of pistol are you shooting and a said "a Glock " I had them basically stacked. They asked more questions about the range and said they were going to talk to the rangemaster. Never once did they take thier hands out from behind the back or front pants pocket. When they left , I watched because I was going to go to the RangeMasters house if they did, had my ak-47 in the truck ( lesson learned), they left and didnt go there. I told them to be sure and honk their horn because of the wiehmeriers there.
They werent wearing matching outfits, but they looked like gangbangers.
I dont know if they were tring to intimadate me, they really wanted to join the club, or thought they could score a easy weapon.
My plan was to move off the X at 1 o'clock firing at the smaller guy with his hand in his pocket, the big guy with his hand behind his back hopefully couldnt shot at me because of his buddy, and my second shot would have been to the big guy, running all the time. Thank GOD they never made a move, but they never moved their hands from the shirt or pocket on thier way back to thier truck.
I think I got lucky,
Gary

At the range
 
#251 ·
.....he has had to fight for his life before and when he tells the story in person you know that his life was in jeopardy.

At the range
At the range Monday , firing my new Glock Model 36 , the creek had flooded the range up to the 50 yard berm. I had the range to mayself and was firing the new pistol. Then I noticed a truck drive up and 2 guys get out and start walking towards me, they were Mexicans--with MANY tattoos. So I reloaded my pistol and said "Hi, " the one on the left had his hand behind his back and under his shirt, the guy on the right who was smaller, had his hand in his pocket.The range is isolated from the Rangemasters house.I had my pistol in hand , they walked towards me and asked about joining the range . I told them they would need to go and talk to the Rangemaster who live in the house. The little guy started to walk to my right and the big guy stood there. I moved to my right and didnt let them enclose me. They asked what kind of pistol are you shooting and a said "a Glock " I had them basically stacked. They asked more questions about the range and said they were going to talk to the rangemaster. Never once did they take thier hands out from behind the back or front pants pocket. When they left , I watched because I was going to go to the RangeMasters house if they did, had my ak-47 in the truck ( lesson learned), they left and didnt go there. I told them to be sure and honk their horn because of the wiehmeriers there.
They werent wearing matching outfits, but they looked like gangbangers.
I dont know if they were tring to intimadate me, they really wanted to join the club, or thought they could score a easy weapon.
My plan was to move off the X at 1 o'clock firing at the smaller guy with his hand in his pocket, the big guy with his hand behind his back hopefully couldnt shot at me because of his buddy, and my second shot would have been to the big guy, running all the time. Thank GOD they never made a move, but they never moved their hands from the shirt or pocket on thier way back to thier truck.
I think I got lucky,
Gary

At the range
Outstanding situational awareness.
 
#5 ·
I'd be surprised if having a gun increases your chances of being targeted any more than having cash in your pocket, or expensive jewerly, or a nice car, or maybe even being at a bank. If you were a thief would you rather target the guy with a gun - or the lady with jewerly, or a person with a large sum of cash etc...?
 
#6 ·
Let's try to keep the thread on track and accept what is being said. This does work both ways. The low dedication BG may be convinced to not launch an attack on a person with a gun. But the high dedication BG (such as Platt and Matix) may go hunting for people that have guns.

I think it is time for us all to agree, without having to call for links to prove it, the mere presence of a gun may stop a crime from ever being committed. On the flip side we need to agree that the presence of the gun may also be the catalyst of the crime that is committed. Yes, there are plenty of cases that show that people were targeted for their guns……..in their homes and on their person. This is all well documented and backed by common sense.
Nobody is saying that the low dedication BG is going to target people for their gun. Since we have real documentation of it happening with high dedication BG's we can not turn a blind eye and say that it does not happen.

It does work both ways!
 
#7 ·
Let's try to keep the thread on track and accept what is being said. This does work both ways. The low dedication BG may be convinced to not launch an attack on a person with a gun. But the high dedication BG (such as Platt and Matix) may go hunting for people that have guns.



Nobody is saying that the low dedication BG is going to target people for their gun. Since we have real documentation of it happening with high dedication BG's we can not turn a blind eye and say that it does not happen.

It does work both ways!
See, that's just it. I don't accept what's said, just because someone says so. You're providing a singular instance. I never said it didn't happen, I said I've only ever heard of one instance, which makes it highly unlikely it's a normal occurrence, as opposed to homes being broken into, because there are guns to be found there. You're talking about a pair of guys. Tell me, no, prove to me that this happens on a regular basis, and I would take your statements more seriously. You can't expect people to "accept" what you say otherwise.
 
#9 ·
The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part II

The Mental Aspect of the Fight


Some people may want to call this “mindset” but that term is very vague and does not do justice to the things that you should really know when it comes to open carry. If we can all agree that there are risks to carrying handguns (open or concealed) and that there is a certain responsibility attached to that decision, then it is clear that we need to “get our head right” about what we are doing, why we are doing it, and how to do it best. If you are open carrying for the reasons mention in the first part of this article, then you need to understand that the mind is the ultimate weapon and the handgun is just the tool that the mind uses to be as efficient and effective as you can possibly be inside of the limitations of “just walking through life.” In other words, it is the mind that turns the talisman into a devastating weapon. Without the mind it is just a chunk of metal, wood, and plastic.

I think that we can all agree that the very best life threatening confrontation is the one that you can avoid. If you don’t feel this way, let me warn you “be very careful what you wish for.” Being a hero is not all that it is cracked up to be. It can be alright (that is the extent of it, that is why almost all hero’s say “I just did what anyone else would do”) or it could be absolutely devastating.

“If you spend your life hunting monsters, be very careful to not become one yourself. Because, when you stare into the abyss, the abyss will eventually stare back into you.”

When it comes down to avoidance, awareness is our number one tool. When you are open carrying, you need to learn the difference between people looking at you and thinking “hey that guy has a gun” and looking at you and thinking “hey that guy has a gun, I bet he thinks he is a bad *****. I could so take that gun if I wanted to.” Do not make the mistake that people do not ever ponder this. I am a certified good guy and I have pondered it. There are times that I have wanted to teach a lesson or two. But of course being a certified good guy, I did not do it……….but oh was it tempting! To think that people will not take your gun “just because they can” is a huge mistake. That is why everyone that you do not know personally needs to be looked at with a critical eye. I am not saying to be paranoid, but use some common sense and good judgment. If you do not know the person……do not trust the person. We all need to be aware of the bad guys ploy of sending in a “friendly” to set the person up for what they want. If it seems too good to be true……guess what……it is too good to be true.

When you are open carrying, keep your head up and your radar on. Let people know that you see them, when they see you. A little eye contact is good…….too much is bad. A nod of acknowledgement is acceptable, but do not come across as being too friendly or too much of a hard *****. You should not be striving to engage people, you should not be looking to “educate.” That leaves you open. You should be striving to do what you need to do, inside of your life, and then fulfill your mission and go home. One of the main stay ploys for a bad guy is to get you to stop and have a conversation, so they can close distance. Once the distance has been closed, you are theirs! If you doubt this then you do not know about the OODA loop or “initiative deficit.” Allowing people to engage you in order “to educate” is playing into one of the most successful bad guy ploys that there is.

“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan that will allow you to dominate everyone that you meet.”

Situational awareness is all about profiling. This has nothing to do with race. We all know that bad guys come in all races, sizes, ages, and sex. You are profiling anything that is simply out of place or unusual. It can be as simple as a glance that is adverted quickly when eye contact is made. It can as simple as a certain type of car. Yes, we do profile cars……right? One of my favorite profiling games that I play is the “who is the most dangerous person in the general vicinity?” As long as the answer is a resounding “ME!” then I am safe. As soon as I begin to question that answer, then I know that I really need to be on my toes. Ego can never be part of this game, the truth is the truth and everything else is a lie. This question cannot be answered through target shooting. Fighting and target shooting have next to nothing to do with each other.

As Gabe pointed out in his book "The Combative Perspective" the term "mindset" is very vague and does not do justice to the necessary mental aspect of the fight. People think that mindset is just awareness and willingness. In my opinion that is less that 10% of the true combative perspective. Gabe sets out the combative perspective into four categories. Inside of each of these four categories are subcategories. The mental aspect of the fight that people refer to as mindset is much more than just awareness and willingness. Gabe’s book is 97 pages. Over half of my “Point Shooting Progressions” book is about the mental aspect of the fight.

Gabe's book is set up as;

Desire for Victory

Elimination of Uncertainty

Situational Awareness

Willingness to act

While most of this is covered in Gabe's book we can also consider;

Know yourself

Know the adversary

Know the dynamics of a fight

Know the correct context of a fight

Know avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation

Know that the situation is the dictating factor

Know the best strategies for your very personal mission

Know when to apply your wide range of tactics

Know which skill sets facilitate the best use of your tactics

Your tactics are worthless without having your head straight.

Your skill sets are worthless without having your head straight.

Your equipment is worthless without having your head straight.

Mindset

Tactics

Skill sets

Equipment

In that order!

The brain is the ultimate weapon....everything else is just a tool.
 
#10 ·
Well written and well thought out article.

A couple of personal experiences that to me show both the value of and liability of being openly armed. When in public, I carry concealed, but around home and on my property or when hunting I most often carry openly.

I was confronted by a pair of poachers a few years ago. When they spotted my weapon, one began to raise his shotgun. The second stopped him, but there were a couple real tense moments before they decided it would be a good idea to leave.

The fall of 1989 I was hunting on a section of public land along I-90 in Southern Minnesota when 4 young men in a Lincoln Continental (low rider, IL plates) pulled into the parking area where I was loading my truck to leave. My rifle was already unloaded and cased, but I was carrying a handgun in an open-top cross-draw holster. All except the driver got out and started talking about looking for some place to hunt (none were dressed for the weather or hunting) and wanting to see my rifle. When I turned sideways and moved to put my truck between them and me, they spotted the handgun and immediately began back-peddling and saying they didn't want any trouble.

In the first instance, the presence of my weapon caused a hostile response from one of the poachers. In the second incident the presence of a readily accessible sidearm most likely saved me, at the very least, from being robbed and maybe from worse.

Stay safe,
 
#11 ·
Well written articles.

IMO, I don't think that OC necessarily makes you a target (READ - I doubt that there are any BGs out there that are specifically looking for people OCing just so they can get their gun) but more of a crime of opportunity or desperation.

A persons demeanor along with how they OC will dictate peoples response to it. The average Joe or Jane OCing a generic handgun in a cheap off the shelf, one size fits all nylon holster is most likely a low risk target, but still a risk. I'd even go as far as to include the one OCing in a Gecko 45 tackticool drop holster would fall into that category. The deciding factor would come from observing the individual for some time to check there awareness of their surroundings and how they carry themselves.

I am not saying that people don't get robbed for their guns. That's obvious. How else does a career BG acquire a gun. It most likely was not through a FFL and proper channels.

The state you live in and area also come into play regarding both the sheep and BGs. If OC is legal but not that common, bot the sheep and the BGs will have the same panic level, albeit for different reasons.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I agree with much of your article and think it's very valuable to anyone who carries a gun, OC or CC. I disagree with some and just like OldVet, I will take my chances with OC (which I prefer, and train for), they're highly in my favor.
 
#18 ·
To clarify my statement, currently the "privilege" of OC here in FL is so restricted as to be practically useless for SD, so I do not OC. I have while living in other states during my service, and not once was I assaulted for my firearm, nor were any general alarms raised. I guess those states realized a "MWAG" isn't a criminal until he breaks the law.

It is not now nor ever was my intent to go "John Wayne" and strap my six-shooter onto my hip. My preference is discreet open carry, my OWB covered with a loose shirt (it's too dang hot and humid here to be tucking in!). I can do so with my CWFL, but as the statutes are written, incidental/accidental exposure while carrying may be construed as "improper exposure," and I don't want to deal with that hassle. A bill is running the gauntlet of the state legislature that would allow licensed individuals to OC, eliminating the risk of trumped-up "improper exposure" charges.

It makes no difference to me whether anyone CCs or OCs. Neither method alarms me. We all carry different guns, different ammo, different holsters and carry by different methods. I only wish more people did one or the other. As for being targeted? I bet more people are targeted because the BGs don't see a gun than those who obviously are armed.
 
#16 ·
This is a contortion of facts used to support your point of claiming OC'ers will always be targeted.
Actually this is a distortion of what I said. I did not say that they will "always" be targeted. I said that they "may" be targeted.

If we can get past this one distorted point we can do so much better.

I open carry guys........this is not an anti-open carry piece.

It is a "how to be as squared away as you can possibly be" piece.

I have a deep concern for my friends who have fallen for the "The mere presence of a gun" philosophy.
 
#17 ·
Actually this is a distortion of what I said. I did not say that they will "always" be targeted. I said that they "may" be targeted.

If we can get past this one distorted point we can do so much better.

I open carry guys........this is not an anti-open carry piece.

It is a "how to be as squared away as you can possibly be" piece.

I have a deep concern for my friends who have fallen for the "The mere presence of a gun" philosophy.
As do I. To me "the mere presence of a gun" is a tool to use at your own discretion. I use it to judge peoples reaction to it, once you learn about body language and people's reactions, judging their intent gets much easier. I think every gun carrier (OC and CC) should get some training in this area, it could save your life without having to use your gun.

I don't and no one should rely on the mere presence of a gun to deter the crime/criminal. You have to know how to keep your gun in your control and know how to effectively and efficiently use it if needed.
 
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#19 ·
The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part III

The Retention Problem


“Ever since the first caveman grabbed the first rock inside of a fight, man has been fighting over a weapon.”

Weapon retention is something that simply has to be taken into consideration if you are going to carry a gun……concealed or open. I think we can all agree that if you follow the “Three Stupid Rule” your chances of being in a life threatening encounter are very low………that is if you follow the “Three Stupid Rule.” Most young people do not follow those rules and it seems as if the open carry crowd is predominantly young people. The chances rise dramatically if you live outside of the rules. But let’s all face it, even if the chance is low if your number is called it does not matter how many other peoples numbers were not called. All that matters is that you are now fighting for your life or the life of your loved ones. If there was zero chance of this happening then we would not need to carry weapons at all. But we all know that it can happen, so let’s get past the BS that is commonly thrown around by the political activist.

Retention is an issue that must be taken into consideration!

Refuse to admit this fact at your own peril. But do not blame the “self defense” guys for not trying to get this fundamental truth through to you…….blame the political activist for trying to hide it from you. When men fight, there will most likely be a weapon involved (even if it is an improvised weapon.) If there is only one weapon, there will be a fight over that weapon if the fight is not ended quickly and decisively. If you have a visible gun on your waistband, you have brought that one weapon into the fight. Basically that makes almost any fight that you get into a gunfight.

If we can just agree that “fights happen” then we can agree that retention is an issue.

When we look at “our power” it is strongest right inside of our work space. Our work space is from waist to chin, inside of each shoulder. It extends out about one foot from our chest. This is the area where we are our strongest. This is where “our power” is at its peak. This is right inside of the natural arch of the arms, if we were to bring our hands up along the body, from our waist up to our chin. Not only is this “our power” workspace it is also our optimal area of hand speed. If I want to open carry and I want to be the very best that I can be, I am going to wear my holster on my waistband, near my centerline. You can call it “cross draw” or “appendix” depending on the position that you use, but it has many advantages.

The number one advantage is that the gun is in front of you and you have better “security” over that gun. We have better security due to the gun being on the same side of your body as your eyes. The gun is also guarded by being in between your arms and inside of your power work space. This offers great protection from any gun grab from behind. When we look at conventional open carry methods of carry such as “on the hip” or “behind the hip” we see that we are really open from an attack on the gun from behind. When we combine “the eyes,”” the power,” and the “hand speed” from the centerline it is clear that any other carry position on the waistband are suboptimal positions in regards to weapon retention. While this concept may be huge inside of “those in the know” inside of certain tactical circles, it is not that well known inside of the open carry circles.

If you have made the decision to open carry on the hip or behind the hip it is probably a very good idea to invest in a high quality (I mean quality, not prolific) retention holster. Personally, I really like the Safariland retention holsters. Bladetec also has some good offerings. We need to accept the fact that since the gun is not on the same side of the body as the eyes, not inside of the power work space, and way off of the centerline we are going to need to supplement the suboptimal carry method with a holster that will mitigate those obvious weaknesses.

In Part I of this series I talked about “responsibility.” We have a responsibility to make sure that our weapons do not end up in the hands of the bad guys. That means that we must look at the security of our weapon. Centerline carry allows you to operate without retention devices. On or behind the hip should be supplemented with a quality retention holster. I am not interested in debating the tired old argument “Bad guys won’t take your gun.” That is not what my personal experience has shown me and no I will not provide a link or tell the story. All I know is…….BALONEY! Be very careful listening to a person that has never even been in a fist fight……..let alone a fight for a life.

If someone grabs for your gun, push down hard on his hand to keep the gun in the holster and to trap his hand, then go to town with hand to hand skill sets or access your blade and take out the parts of the machine that allow the machine to fight. Gun guys are notorious for thinking “I do not need hand to hand skills, I’ll just shoot them”……BALONEY! “I do not need to know knife fighting, I’ll just shoot them”……..BALONEY! This type of thinking is just another example of the perpetuation of ignorance inside of the gun world.

Let’s look at how to keep people from even thinking ”I could take that gun if I wanted to.” It all comes down to establishing a personal space around you. American men hold conversations at two yards. That is finger tip to finger tip. If anyone invades this space you are either dealing with an annoying idiot (you all know what I am talking about,) a person looking to teach you a lesson, or a bad guy trying to get to your gun. Be wary of anyone trying to get inside of this space. As soon as it happens you need to go from yellow to orange. Do what needs to be done to re-establish this space and establish that you do not like people inside of your personal space.

This is why I do not open carry in crowds. This is why I do not open carry anywhere where I know that I will be standing in line.

If you are open carrying in a crowd and it is impossible to avoid everyone, adjust the direction that you stand to mitigate your openings. It all comes down to awareness, common sense, and acceptance that life is not beautiful and people are not great.

The evil of man is just a newspaper article away. Bad things do happen to good people!
 
#20 ·
When I have to dress out in full uniform, and wear a gun belt , I use the standard issue Safariland Raptor, which is a triple retention holster. Even with that we still train in weapons retention techniques. I would not wear a gun in the open with no less. The grab for the weapon is a very real possibility, and I would think even more so for the citizen.

This weekend, the wife and I took a bike trip to a nearby town to an annual festival, and I was carrying a g26 iwb, covered with a t shirt and leather vest. While there I saw several people OCing, and the contraptions they were using was horrific. One little older guy was carrying a j frame in an old leather holster that was flopping all over the place. In my mind I was evaluating him, and I'm sure it wouldn't take much to own his gun.
For me, OCing is not a good idea, especially in a crowd. I liken it to showing your hand at a poker game before the betting begins. Yeah, it's a right and I support it, and so is freedom of speech, but there are somethings we probably should not say in public either.
 
#22 ·
Great article. I open carry from time to time and appreciate the discussion.
I agree that one needs stronger situational awareness when OC. We should also state the obvious that how you carry yourself and appear to those around you makes a big difference as well. Confidence says to BG's that you can handle yourself and they better not try anything, and puts the sheeple at ease that you must know what you are doing and not some ding-bat with a gun. Being a "tuff-guy" is no good either. Billy bad a$$ attitude usually will get you in trouble just as quick as clueless.
 
#24 ·
The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part IV

Dealing With the Unknown Quantity


If your focus is on achieving your “paramount mission” and not on “educating” and “stirring up awareness” then you need to know how to deal with the unknown quantity. If you are out there trying to “educate” then this will not apply to you, but be very aware of that fact that you are intentionally breaking solid and long established self defense philosophy of not letting unknown people close ground on you in order to converse with you. This is one of my main concerns with what the political activist preach. They want you to go out and “educate” people that you do not even know. This would fall under the “doing stupid things” so that makes you the stupid person doing stupid things.

On the other hand, if all you care about is living your life and going home to your loved ones, then you do need to know how to deal with the unknown quantity. We cannot just pull our gun due to somebody getting to close, yet we do not want the wrong people getting too close, because their percentages of a successful attack rise with every inch that they close. We need to deal with them before they close the distance.

Of course the first step to this is awareness and profiling. If you see them early enough and you identify them as not being a threat……great! But, if you see them early and your spider senses tell you “something is not right here” you need to be able to trust that feeling and know how to deal with the person that is causing that feeling. When it comes to profiling, do not immediately dismiss the attractive woman or girl as “not a threat.” Using a “friendly” to set up the mark is a tactic as old as the hills.

Once you have identified the possible threat, you need to use your “positioning” skills to avoid their approach. This can be as simple as a directional change, stepping behind a barrier, crossing a street, etc, etc…….all while scanning for additional threats or other members of the crew. This position change will put them in a place where they will either have to counter your move or call off the approach. If they counter your positioning move they are tipping their hand to their intent. If they tip their hand you need to call them on it immediately. This is where we get loud!

“BACK OFF!” “BACK OFF!” “BACK THE [expletive] OFF!”

Sometimes the street only respects the street!


If you can’t curse like a sewer rat, your point just might not get across. Embrace that inner animal and let them know that you mean serious business.

These verbal commands are all done while using your positioning skills to maintain your distance and while scanning for addition threats or members of the crew. While we are moving we want to make sure that the adversary does not have a chance to take a “snap shot” of the battle field. If you plant yourself the snap shot can be taken and the OODA loop can begin to be processed through. By constantly moving and scanning we cut down on the chances for the adversary to develop his plan of action. If these steps do not work, the adversary has shown you his entire hand. What point you go to your weapon is a very personal decision. Your line in the sand has to be perfectly clear in your mind before the confrontation ever takes place. This is the point where all of the work you did inside of the “mental aspect of the fight” comes to fruition. Remember hesitation can get you killed! Get your head straight well before hand!

Once the fight is on, do what needs to be done to dominate the situation. This may mean stay at the cover that you had already positioned yourself at, explode off the X with your dynamic movement draw stroke, or even dominate the encounter with ballistic effect if you are in a really good position.

Another skill set that you are going to want to own is the identification of “pre-attack indicators.” There are very common movements and behaviors that are almost always present when the adversary is about to launch an attack. If you know what to look for you can cut down on you being surprised dramatically. There are certain “rituals” involved right before an attack is launched.

Grooming
Removing of clothing
Puffing up
Clenching of fists
Clenching of the jaw
Turning red
Turning grey
Shaking of hands or twitching of fingers
Inability to stand in one place or pacing
Blading off into a fighter’s stance
The thousand yard stare
Blinking of eye quickened
Target glance
Weapon glance
Escape glance
Witness glance
Lack of eye contact
Increased breathing
Hiding of the hands
Hiding of an empty palm
Flanking
Slow verbal responses due to being occupied making a plan

All of these are signs of an imminent attack. If you know what they look like you are in a much better position to deal with them. The difference between knowing something is going to happen and not knowing something is going to happen is huge. If it comes out of “nowhere” your response time is going to be very slow. If you see it coming your ingrained responses will give you a much better chance to deal with the attack.

As we see, the idea that relying on “the mere presence” of the gun is a lowest common denominator mindset. There is so much out there to learn if you want to be as safe and as deadly as you can possibly be. Please do not make the mistake of listening to those that do not know what they do not know.

The more you know the earlier you can get into the fight. The earlier you get into the fight the higher your chances are of coming out victorious. When we talk about this “time period” to get into the fight earlier, we are talking an exponential difference between your chances of being victorious. The more knowledge you have the more off sides you can be. You do not need to be attacked before you can fight. All you need to be able to do is articulate your reasonable fear of a life threatening or grievously bodily harm attack.

The more you know the better you will be. Do not settle for being lowest common denominator. The gun is not a talisman that wards off evil!
 
#25 ·
Good article. And I tend to agree with most of it. I open carry, I never open carry in anything less than a Level II holster and I find that when I open carry my SA is much more focused that normal.

You make some good points.
 
#26 ·
Oh geez.... someone wants to write a book about everything in the world, of how to's and how not to's.

It's pretty simple..... 1) use common sense , 2) don't shoot anything you didn't intend to.
 
#30 ·
When you are asking for specific "examples" of "Open Carry People" having their firearms stolen you must keep something in mind.
Open Carry by ordinary citizens is NOT very common at this particular point in time. Even in locations where open carry is legal. There are not very many people doing it at all.
Of course...when you go onto an open carry forum there will be many members of that forum that naturally carry open but, compare those numbers to the 350 Million people living in the U.S. and the number of Open Carry people is less than a minuscule fraction of 1%.
Really what you NEED to try & find are "real world" examples of "human beings" with an obvious open & displayed firearm where "Bad Guys" are willing to take it and often "take out" the individual that has that firearm on open display.
When you look there - there are hundreds of examples & many, many, more worldwide than in the U.S. right now.
As civilized society (in general) breaks down/deteriorates in the U.S. & drug use continues to escalate - the numbers of domestic citizens that are killed for their firearm will increase dramatically as it already has in all other areas of the world.

Just keep this fact in mind. When you are carrying obvious & open in any location where a crime is about to go down.
You may not be wearing a uniform but, YOU ARE & WILL BE THE SECURITY GUARD equivalent. :yup:


I cannot even find this one story on the Internet because there was no real Internet back then.
The one incident that I know of personally was a plainclothes detective that was walking to eat lunch out with his sports-coat off & his firearm visible. He was slammed in the back of the head with an unknown object (brick - ball bat - iron pipe - 2X4 ???) [they never did say what he was hit with] but, his wallet and firearm were taken & this incident happened in the afternoon. Authorities believed (at the time) that the perp was an escapee or a drug addict.
This happened (years ago) & back when I was in Art School a few blocks away from my school & that is why I remember it.


The bottom line is that if there are truly bad people out there willing to gun-grab, overpower, murder, a security guard...they honestly will not hesitate to do the very same thing to you.
Actually all you really need is one crazy person or a suicidal goofball standing behind you in a line to snatch your firearm and kill a few people & while you may not be held criminally liable...you will end up in civil court.
If you are 100% confident in your ability to always retain & maintain absolute, total, control of your firearm every minute of every day that you're out among strangers & the general public then go for it. Just keep in mind though that the one time that you're caught unaware...it could cost you everything including your life.


I DID find these stories (below) in only 10 minutes of looking.


Baltimore MD April 13 2011 Police say a man who stole a handgun from a bank security guard at Cross Street in Federal Hill was shot by police several blocks south after pulling the weapon on officers, a city police spokesman said.

Anthony Guglielmi, the police department’s chief spokesman, said preliminarily that it did not appear that the man attempted to rob the bank. He took the guard’s gun and tried to carjack a woman, but was unsuccessful. Guglielmi said the man fled south, discarding clothing, but was chased by citizens who were calling police and relaying his location. He was eventually located in the 1800 block of Light St., west of Riverside Park in South Baltimore.



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Jun 12, 2002

Another gun taken from security guard

Yet another Belize City security guard has been robbed of his weapon during a hold-up. According to police, around 9:00 Tuesday night a masked man armed with a handgun walked into Ying Ying Store on Mahogany Street Extension and demanded money. He ordered the people inside, namely the store attendant and security guard, to lie on the floor while his two accomplices entered the shop. The trio then stole the guard’s thirty-eight calibre revolver and three hundred dollars from the cash register. Up to newstime, no suspects had been detained by the police. By our unofficial count, this is the fifth security guard in three weeks to have his service revolver stolen. Today police in Belize City launched a crackdown on security companies whose guards are not licensed to carry weapons. A number of guns were seized.

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A security officer's gun was taken from him Wednesday morning during an armed robbery at an Internet cafe.

Gainesville police said no one was injured when a lone gunman entered the Allied Veterans .72 Internet Center at 4158 N.W. 13th St. shortly before 9 a.m.

Witnesses told police the man took a gun from an armed security officer on duty, and then forced employees into a room where the business kept its cash. The gunman was given and undisclosed amount of money before he took the keys to another employee's car.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 12:40 p.m. yesterday a man stepped through the doors of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. He took two paces, lowered his rifle at a security guard and, before anyone could react, opened fire in a popular national landmark.

The guard, who did not have time to draw his gun, fell bleeding and fatally wounded to the polished floor. Other guards fired back, cutting down the assailant. Terrified patrons, many of them children, dived for safety. And what moments before had been a bright weekday in June became a tableau of violence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Report: Cash, gun taken in armored car robbery in St. Paul - Pioneer Press
Friday, 14 January 2011 06:09
Pioneer Press
The ATM machine was being filled when an armed gunman took the cash and guard's gun, the station said. The gas station is still open, the station said.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hospital Security
Inmate Steals Gun, Holds Hospital Security Officer Hostage

September 21, 2010 |
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- (UPDATE) A suicidal inmate, who was seeking treatment at Shands Jacksonville Medical Center, held a hospital security officer hostage with the officer's own weapon.

Larry Garner, 19, was receiving care at the hospital for eating pens and razor blades at the Duval County jail, reports The Florida Times-Union. The inmate, who was wearing handcuffs, leg shackles and connecting chains, attacked John Scarborough, 62, around 5 p.m. on Sept. 18. Scarborough had been assigned to monitor Garner's fifth floor private room.

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Unarmed security guard faces lawsuit for failing to prevent massacre

Feb 7, 2010

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CHA security guard attacked by 3 men
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three men attacked a security guard and stole his gun Friday night in the lobby of a Chicago Housing Authority building on the city's West Side, police said.

The guard was patrolling a high-rise building in the 1500 block of 14th Place in the city's ABLA Homes complex about 6:30 p.m. when he was attacked, Monroe District Capt. John Kenny said.

Kenny said the guard, who works for a private security firm hired by the CHA, may have been attacked because he had prior run-ins with at least one of his assailants. No money was taken.




Police surrounded the complex, recovered the weapon and arrested one of the suspects shortly after the attack, Kenny said. The other two suspects were at large Friday night. The guard suffered bruises but did not require hospitalization, he said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
U.S. District Judge R. David Proctor sentenced ELDRES DRAY DOWDELL, 32, on charges of armed bank robbery and using a .380 caliber pistol during the robbery of a Regions Bank on Warrior Road in December 2008. The judge ordered Dowdell to complete four years of supervised release after completing his prison term.

Dowdell robbed the bank of about $27,077. Birmingham Police found Dowdell hiding in a vacant house near the bank shortly after the robbery and recovered the money and a handgun taken from a security guard at the bank, according to the government’s sentencing memorandum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Two men, dressed in Santa hats and masks, surprised and attacked the guard.

The men stole the guard’s gun, which according to police was a loaded automatic weapon.

“This is serious. I have a hard time believing it is a prank. It might be premeditated,” said Anders Krook, station commander at the Norrmalm police.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A security guard had his gun and Taser gun stolen during an attack at an apartment complex early Wednesday.

Police said the guard was beaten at the Sabal Palm Apartments located on Raleigh Street near Kirkman Road in Metrowest.

The victim suffered several head wounds in the attack.

Paramedics said the victim worked for the apartment complex and was alone with the men attacked.

Orlando police have not received a description of the robbers.

Anyone with information concerning the crime is urged to call Crimeline at 800-423-TIPS.

Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aug 4, 2000

Security guard shot, gun stolen


A security guard lies in the Karl Heusner Memorial Hospital after he was shot in the back on Thursday night. Thirty-nine year old Edgar Juarez, a Guatemalan, who works for AAA Security Company, was on duty at Superstore on Cemetery Road. According to police reports, the guard saw two men walk into the store. Juarez ran after them and a struggle ensued. As a result two shots were fired, one of which caught Juarez in the back and exited his stomach. Following the shooting, the men stole the guard’s gun and escaped on bicycles. Juarez remains in the KHMH in a critical but stable condition. Police as yet have no suspects.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Acre: 63-year-old security guard attacked, gun stolen
By JPOST.COM STAFF
06/24/2010 18:41




Two masked men attacked a security guard Thursday morning in the southern industrial area of Acre. The attackers stole the gun of the 63-year-old mall security guard and escaped from the scene on a motorbike.
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Security guard shot dead-firearm stolen
Forty-five year-old Ivor Grant of Hudson Street, Savanna-la-mar, Westmoreland, was shot dead and his firearm stolen by a gunman on Darling Street in the parish last night.
Reports from the CCN’s Liaison Officer for Westmoreland are that about 11:15 p.m., Grant was walking along Darling Street with his wife. On reaching a section of the roadway, he was pounced upon by a gunman who opened fire at him hitting him several times. He died on spot.
 
#31 ·
I should add that if the only way that you are able to legally carry is to carry "open" I would rather that you carry open than not carry at all.

I also should say that I have absolutely no problem "Constitutionally" with citizens wanting to carry however they feel that it is their individual Constitutional right to carry.
That does not mean that I believe it's a wise or amazingly smart thing to do.


But, if you are carrying open for the "coolness factor" or because you just think that it's too much of a "hassle" to "cover up" - or...because you think that it is some sort of a "crime or assault prevention deterrent" then you should probably have a quiet & honest "sit down" with yourself and mull it all over again in your head.
And....in the meantime razor-hone those fiream retention skills & your condition levels on a constant basis because there really are people out there (in the general human population) that are not intimidated (in the least) by the mere sight of a firearm & if that person is not bad enough to take it from you alone...the task can usually be much more easily accomplished by overwhelming multiples of assailants.
The bottom line is that it is your "hide & bones" (and not mine) for you to risk as you deem fit.

Stay Safe.
 
#38 · (Edited by Moderator)
I tried your quiet sit down but nothing changed, When ever I go to the store for iteams I can fit in one basket that I can hold in my left hand while my other is against my right side while standing in line, with my right side towards the cashier, I OC, if someone wants to try to reach between my arm pressing against my OC side they will find themself in a wrist lock, And I agree that you have to have constant situational awareness but I know from a personal experience that OC prevented something worst happening.. After helping a friend close up his shop and walking to my truck around eight pm, opening my passenger side door to adjust iteams on the seat, my right side of the body is towards my truck. A group of hispanics pull up 6-9 feet away calling me a dumb white cracker and Im "in their hang out spot", start exiting their car and before they could start approaching me I turned my body directly to them with my right hand on my Glock, they shout "you [removed] cracker", get back in their rice burner and speed off. If i was CCing I would have had to draw my gun directly at them and now escalted to a situation of police involvment.
 
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#33 · (Edited)
I do!

I write to teach and to let people know what type of instructor I am. I give away a ton of free information to those that will never train and a ton to those that are trying to figure out who to train with. This is no different from any other instructor that writes on gun forums.


Yes, I do write books. I have one already published and material enough for two more (I just have to find the time to organize them.)

For every person that has a problem with that there are two others that walk up to me during my courses, just to shake my hand and thank me for taking the time to explain things to them.
 
#34 ·
QKShooter

Outstanding post that get's right to the heart of the matter.

I personally know of three events where a man was targeted for his gun and I was only on the streets for thirteen years. I know of hundreds of cases where men were targeted for their guns. They were cops, security gaurds, gun store employees, and gun range users.

The political activists have there head in the sand and refuse to see the empirical data that is out there. Their ridiculous line of "provide a link" is a joke because as soon as you do they say cops, security gaurds, gun store employees, and gun range users are not "open carry guys."

The question is not "do open carry guys get targeted for their guns?"

The question is "do people get targeted for their guns?"

The answer for that is "absolutely!" Search the internet you will find hundreds of cases.

You may not find cases of open carry guys being targeted, but their numbers are so low it is like saying "two headed rattlesnakes are not dangerous because there is no documentation of anyone being bite by one."

If you are a student of self defense.......be very careful who you listen to. The political activists are using horrible science and tossing out all the empirical data that has been established for a very long time.
 
#35 ·
Here in Ohio, we have Concealed Carry and Open Carry. When folks ask me about open carry, I tell them, yes, it is legal if you are sober and can legally own a gun. BUT, be prepared to pick gravel out of your face and a possible stiff neck from a policeman's knee. "Man with a gun" is always treated the same way. LE doesn't know if you are legit or not until they secure your weapon and investigate. Many LE aren't versed on our Open Carry Law either. I much rather CCW than open. Less problems and I don't want the bad guys to know if I have a gun.
 
#37 ·
But, if you are carrying open for the "coolness factor" or because you just think that it's too much of a "hassle" to "cover up" - or...because you think that it is some sort of a "crime or assault prevention deterrent" then you should probably have a quiet & honest "sit down" with yourself and mull it all over again in your head.
Agreed!

I am not looking for this to turn into a debate.

I am looking to make sure that my open carry friends are as safe as they can be.

I do not mean to stereotype, but many open carry advocates believe that "the mere presence" of the gun is all they need.

It is my opinion that this type of thinking/philosophy is extremely common and very dangerous.

My point is that it does not matter if you open carry or conceal carry, if you want to make sure that you are taking care of "your paramount mission" you can not rely on never needing to fight.

When I look at a pure ratio of highly trained concealed carriers compare to highly trained open carriers, it is clear that there is an over riding belief that if you open carry you do not need to be trained. This is from my direct experience and it is something that really concerns me. It is obvious that somewhere down the line "the mere presence" philosophy has taken on a much larger role than I believe that it should.

I am talking pure ratios here. Concealed carry guys believe that they need quality training at a much higher ratio than open carry guys. IMHO, this thinking is absolutely backwards and potentially very dangerous.

When Gabe Suarez tells me, "I open carry sometimes and sometimes I do it to get right in the libtards face." I know this is a man that has the training, ability, mindset, and skill sets to pretty much do whatever he wants.

But it is an entirely different thing when I hear about newbies strapping guns on and holding "events" and they have no training, knowledge, mindset, skills, ability, or street smarts.

That is the point of these series of articles, to educate, to stir up awareness, to give my open carry friends the very best information that I can so they they can make informed decisions and are not just following a "know nothing" political activist.

IMHO, the overly opinionated "know nothing" political activist is creating a false sense of security that can get people killed. It is my job, as a friend, to teach my friends to be very careful about listening to somebody that refuses to take high quality training......free of charge. The perpetuation of ignorance that I have personally witnessed has forced me to stand up and tell my friends that "The Emperor has no clothes."

It is my opinion that an open carry guy should be trained to a standard higher than a concealed carry guy. From my first hand experience on a pure ratio, this is not even close to being the way that it is..........not close by a long shot.
 
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