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Discussion Starter #1
I laugh every time I see a thread about the "dead" or "dying" .40 S&W also laugh at the hand wringing "it kicks to hard" crowd that then loads their G19 or Micro 9mm with the hottest +p+ ammo they can find and claim it performs just as good as the .40 or .45 (at those pressures and speeds they are getting .40 recoil). The .45 guys say it hits nearly as hard as the .45 yet most SD .40 hits harder than standard pressure 230 gr. 45., you have to go up to +p 230 gr. or drop down to the 200 and 185 gr. loads to get into the .40 S&W SD ammo performance envelope in the standard 165-180 gr. weights. Then we have the 10mm guys who call it "the short and weak" yet it will match most factory 10mm until you get into the premium JHPs.

I think it is hated because it does everything you need a pistol caliber to do by just changing ammo, and in factory ammo it is loaded from 292ft-lbs to 754 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. 13 different bullet weights in regular ammo, and 6 hyper-lite or fragnible rounds that I can find. these are offered by every ammo manufacture in one form or another.

I will admit it is a bit much in the sub-compact and micros but you can tailor your ammo to those little guys with good ammo that recoils no more than good 9mm SD ammo that most carry in those guns. so if you do have a "little" .40 get those hotter SD 165-180 gr. rounds out of it and load it something like these.
Federal 135gr. guard dog or low recoil 135gr. Federal hydra shok. or if you prefer a heavier bullet a Fioccho 155 XTP @ 950 FPS or 180gr. xtp @ 950FPS....it's not perfect but if a Micro 40 is all you have it gives you a more pleasant to shoot option without loosing money on a trade for a in high demand micro 9mm.

Now what about ammo selection, truthfully it is freaking huge.

100 gr AFR Extreme Shock.
115 gr. Glaser SS.
125 gr. Tac-xp.
130 gr. mag-Tech SCHP.
135 gr. 7 different offerings.
140 gr. 5 different offerings
150 gr. Nosler,EPR,Hi-Shok
155 gr 16 different offerings
160 gr. Mag-tech LSWC
165 gr. 15 different offerings
180 gr. 26 different offerings
200 gr. 4 offerings so far
and that is just SD ammo, doesn't include all the FMJ and practice rounds

I know a lot of you think you have no use for a .40 but do yourself a favor pick one up and chunk it in the safe, there are a butt load of police trade in pistols and used ones floating around cheap. then any time you see a box of ammo on sale and have the extra cash grab a box, sooner or later you will find a use for it, even if it is to sell it to me lol.
 

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Wow, subhuman! Just wow!

A good, opinionated and thoughtful thread.

I know I've only barely dipped a toe in the .40 S&W world through the acquisition of a Shield almost three years ago now, but the cartridge and its ballistics really appeals to me. The .40 is a cartridge well worth committing to for personal defense.
 

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Oh, my mind was made up a long time ago.
and when this big boy hit the ground twitching after a 180 at 1100 fps slammed in to him, the 40 loaded as such has been a constant companion when I feel I need more power.
IMG_1118.jpg
 

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That's not a deer Chuck. That's a horse with antlers tied on its head, a big one.
Its big for the part of Ky where my little piece of heaven is, but there are much bigger in the central part of the state where the big open soybean and corn fields are.
The deer in Hill country have it a little tougher, especially in the winter, and grow a little smaller, as a general rule.
But they are very hardy animals.
 

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The .40S&W is an excellent round. What's not to like? It's more potent then the .45acp with the same or less felt recoil and it can hold more rounds then a .45acp. The only real criticism that can be levied against the .40S&W is capacity, in that it doesn't hold as much as 9mm in a gun of an equivalent size, if you are in the "size doesn't matter" camp, but LEO's think size matters. The majority of LEO's in this country carry the .40S&W for a reason, because it works. It has excellent street credibility. It would be wise to pay heed to this.

It can be a bit snappy on recoil for some people which can be a problem, but like Subhuman said there are so many loads available that one should be able to find a load they can manage.

Also, during the great ammo crunch of 2008-2012, .40S&W FMJ was just about the only handgun round available anywhere in my area, which taught me that I needed to get a .40S&W pistol in my line up ASAP.
 

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Nothing wrong with .40. I was a bit concerned about recoil when I bought my Glock 23, as I'd never fired a .40 before, but at least for me with that gun, it wasn't a problem at all. Compared to 9mm, I think the greater diameter and much greater momentum is worth giving up two rounds of capacity.
 

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Also, during the great ammo crunch of 2008-2012, .40S&W FMJ was just about the only handgun round available anywhere in my area, which taught me that I needed to get a .40S&W pistol in my line up ASAP.
That's what led me to the round to begin with. Now I don't shoot it much, but I've got a good stockpile of ammo, and three pistols to choose from for carry should another panic hit.
 
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The .40S&W is an excellent round. What's not to like? It's more potent then the .45acp with the same or less felt recoil and it can hold more rounds then a .45acp. The only real criticism that can be levied against the .40S&W is capacity, in that it doesn't hold as much as 9mm in a gun of an equivalent size, if you are in the "size doesn't matter" camp, but LEO's think size matters. The majority of LEO's in this country carry the .40S&W for a reason, because it works. It has excellent street credibility. It would be wise to pay heed to this.

It can be a bit snappy on recoil for some people which can be a problem, but like Subhuman said there are so many loads available that one should be able to find a load they can manage.

Also, during the great ammo crunch of 2008-2012, .40S&W FMJ was just about the only handgun round available anywhere in my area, which taught me that I needed to get a .40S&W pistol in my line up ASAP.
The majority of LEO's carry .40 because of GLOCK...GLOCK is the reason for the prevalence of the .40, today. The FBI was looking for something better than 9mm and with less recoil than .45acp. Smith and Wesson came up with the round and GLOCK beat their gun to market...then, GLOCK pricing guaranteed the success of the .40. The .40 has proven itself successful and no better than the .45acp...but, now a lot of agencies are looking at 9mm, again.
 

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I have a Glock 27 on my side as I read this..... 40 S&W is a great round .. Very versitile .. maybe the most versatile semi auto round their is ...
 

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Oh, my mind was made up a long time ago.
and when this big boy hit the ground twitching after a 180 at 1100 fps slammed in to him, the 40 loaded as such has been a constant companion when I feel I need more power.
View attachment 169209
How far away was the deer when you took that shot?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The .40S&W is an excellent round. What's not to like? It's more potent then the .45acp ]

not necessarily, .45 standard pressure 230 gr ammo yes, but if you push the 230gr bullet 1000- 1100 fps, 200 gr. 1100-1200 fps or the 185 to 1200+ fps, it is a very serious hammer that a lot of new production 45s can safely fire and you can get these loads, factory loaded , some of these round can outstrip the 40, heck some of them can outstrip the hotter 10mm.

Now that being said the .40 can get on the same playing field at least as the 10 & 45 and it's advantage is that it does it in pistols with a smaller circumference grip and a extra 3 to 7 rounds in the mag. over most 45s, the 10s can match it in capacity but you are still getting that bigger grip that smaller statured people cant deal with.
I am a 40 fan though no doubt about it , but there is a S&W shield 9 and A Sig 1911 that I let come out and play too, but the 40 is my EDC caliber of choice
 

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You're right in your post No. 13 subhuman. The .40 S&W is grand and fully capable of standing on its own excellent performance.

You're right about the .45 ACP too. Study the most potent .45 factory loads and its capabilities as a handloaded endeavor and prepare to be amazed.
 

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The .40S&W is an excellent round. What's not to like? It's more potent then the .45acp ]

not necessarily, .45 standard pressure 230 gr ammo yes, but if you push the 230gr bullet 1000- 1100 fps, 200 gr. 1100-1200 fps or the 185 to 1200+ fps, it is a very serious hammer that a lot of new production 45s can safely fire and you can get these loads, factory loaded , some of these round can outstrip the 40, heck some of them can outstrip the hotter 10mm.

Now that being said the .40 can get on the same playing field at least as the 10 & 45 and it's advantage is that it does it in pistols with a smaller circumference grip and a extra 3 to 7 rounds in the mag. over most 45s, the 10s can match it in capacity but you are still getting that bigger grip that smaller statured people cant deal with.
I am a 40 fan though no doubt about it , but there is a S&W shield 9 and A Sig 1911 that I let come out and play too, but the 40 is my EDC caliber of choice
Yes, I was talking about standard pressure .45acp. Some of the hotter .40S&W loads are indeed superior to standard pressure .45acp. I do not carry a .45acp, but I have been less then impressed with it's performance in the real world then I was initially led to believe from all the hype and hoopla by it's inherents.

Even with a superior .45acp load, you still get more rounds of .40S&W in the same size package or smaller which in the eyes of some would negate any performance advantage.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Factory ammo man.

Double Tap Ammunition Ballistics
Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy ft·lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec.
45 ACP Nosler JHP 185 616 1225
45 ACP +P Barnes TAC-XP 160 512 1200
45 ACP BJHP 230 521 1010
45 ACP Win CE. JHP 230 521 1014
45 ACP FMJ 230 471 960
45 ACP +P SWC HC 255 434 875

Underwood Ammunition Ballistics
Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy ft·lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec.
45 ACP JHP 185 497 1100
45 ACP +P Gold Dot HP 185 592 1200
45 ACP +P Golden Saber BJHP 185 592 1200
45 ACP FMJ 230 414 900
45 ACP JHP 230 414 900
45 ACP +P Gold Dot HP 230 511 1000
45 ACP +P Golden Saber BJHP 230 511 1000
 

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While I'm generally not a fan of light for caliber bullets, I'm curious as to how a controlled expansion bullet like the Nosler 135 weight would do.
At velocities well over 1400 fps, one would think that it might stack up pretty good to the 125 weight 357 magnum.
 

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The majority of LEO's carry .40 because of GLOCK...GLOCK is the reason for the prevalence of the .40, today. The FBI was looking for something better than 9mm and with less recoil than .45acp. Smith and Wesson came up with the round and GLOCK beat their gun to market...then, GLOCK pricing guaranteed the success of the .40. The .40 has proven itself successful and no better than the .45acp...but, now a lot of agencies are looking at 9mm, again.
Not quite there.

The FBI was looking to replace the 9mm and went with the 10mm. But it wasn't long before complaints started coming in, mostly from the female agents, that the guns were rather large and recoil was unmanageable. So the 10mm was out and the .40S&W entered the picture. It fits in guns which were modeled on 9mm platforms so gun size was solved. And it is a hard hitting round.

I carried a gen3 Glock 23 for eight years and still carry it when I deem it in my better interests. Either one of my G23's or my M&P 40c. According to a gun writer well known in the gun culture, The Glock 23 is the best combat handgun one can carry. He is opinionated but his opinion is well taken. The G23 is among the best .40 caliber pistols you can own.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
While I'm generally not a fan of light for caliber bullets, I'm curious as to how a controlled expansion bullet like the Nosler 135 weight would do.
At velocities well over 1400 fps, one would think that it might stack up pretty good to the 125 weight 357 magnum.
yep and out of a 4" barrel instead of a 6" for the .357. I'm betting really nasty holes with those 1400+ fps 135s I'm thinking a good solid CM or CNS, or pelvis shot and you would see those legendary lightning strike body hitting the ground DRT shots.:yup:
 

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Not quite there.

The FBI was looking to replace the 9mm and went with the 10mm. But it wasn't long before complaints started coming in, mostly from the female agents, that the guns were rather large and recoil was unmanageable. So the 10mm was out and the .40S&W entered the picture. It fits in guns which were modeled on 9mm platforms so gun size was solved. And it is a hard hitting round.

I carried a gen3 Glock 23 for eight years and still carry it when I deem it in my better interests. Either one of my G23's or my M&P 40c. According to a gun writer well known in the gun culture, The Glock 23 is the best combat handgun one can carry. He is opinionated but his opinion is well taken. The G23 is among the best .40 caliber pistols you can own.
yep and here is the other one Sig 229 :yup: I trust both of them with my life lol

 
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