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Ive always kind of joked that I don’t like melt jobs on a 1911, because those sharp angles could be useful if it came down to a pistol whipping.
As a guy who carries a fully melted 1991...I am offended ;). But I like the way you think.
 

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This one isn't mine, its a found image of mine. It's a S&W 637 Performance Center. I carry it in the right front pocket of my Duluth Trading cargo shorts using a kydex pocket holster from aholster.com

It fits as well as my 442 with a small boot grip does in the same holster in the same pocket. Actually, it fits so well that I'm considering changing the 442's boot grip to a Combat similar to this from Altamont.

Something about the 637 I really like. I’ve been considering one for about a year now. That performance center one is really nice looking.
 

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I don't even like the J-Frame Smith & Wesson revolver, but I'm willing to own it for use as a back up.

I'm close minded about micro 9mms and would never choose one.

I don't even accept that the 9mm has superior stopping power over the .38 Special.
 

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I don't even like the J-Frame Smith & Wesson revolver, but I'm willing to own it for use as a back up.

I'm close minded about micro 9mms and would never choose one.

I don't even accept that the 9mm has superior stopping power over the .38 Special.
Denial, denial, denial...
 
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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Why?

I'm close minded about micro 9mms and would never choose one.
9mm is a higher pressure round that generates higher velocities with similar bullet weights in similar sized guns. Why wouldn't it have better stopping power?
I don't even accept that the 9mm has superior stopping power over the .38 Special.
 

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I can only suggest that one obtain a chronograph, boxes of top performing 9mm and .38 Special ammunition and test them to find out relative performance characteristics.

I've satisfied myself on the matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
I can very quickly look up testing by other people. Lets look at two loads from the Lucky Gunner tests. In .38, the Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P short barrel load, out of the Kimber K6s, which is 6.62" long. Many people consider this load to be the best in breed for .38 snub nosed use. In 9mm, I'd compare the Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain +P out of the original M&P 9 Compact, which is 6.7" long. IIRC, the FBI is now issuing this load. I also picked it because the bullet weight matched the .38 load

The five shot median velocity for the .38 was 824 f/s, for the 9mm it was 1117 f/s. Are you telling me that a nearly 300 f/s increase in velocity, with the same bullet weight, is not going to make the 9mm more effective?

I can only suggest that one obtain a chronograph, boxes of top performing 9mm and .38 Special ammunition and test them to find out relative performance characteristics.

I've satisfied myself on the matter.
 

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I can very quickly look up testing by other people. Lets look at two loads from the Lucky Gunner tests. In .38, the Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P short barrel load, out of the Kimber K6s, which is 6.62" long. Many people consider this load to be the best in breed for .38 snub nosed use. In 9mm, I'd compare the Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain +P out of the original M&P 9 Compact, which is 6.7" long. IIRC, the FBI is now issuing this load. I also picked it because the bullet weight matched the .38 load

The five shot median velocity for the .38 was 824 f/s, for the 9mm it was 1117 f/s. Are you telling me that a nearly 300 f/s increase in velocity, with the same bullet weight, is not going to make the 9mm more effective?
If one wants to carry a 38 spl, there is no need to limit oneself to the paltry offerings of factory fodder.
The 38spl is capable of much more velocity than factory products allow.
 

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Couldn't that be said for 9mm also?
The 9mm is a high pressure cartridge, it’s already loaded to about the maximum it can be, unless you buy it from a boutique ammo company that uses blended powders to give a higher velocity within its specified pressure range.

The 38 spl began life as a black powder cartridge and for the most part is kept in that pressure range with modern powders.
The 38 spl has more case capacity than the 9mm, and can be safely loaded to a greater level of pressure then it is by the regular factor makers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
Actually I know where G-man is going with this. If you're willing to ignore SAAMI pressure specification, .38 spl cases can be easily loaded to .357 magnum pressures. The .38 pressure specifications are based on really old guns meant to fire black powder cartridges. The only reason .357 magnum uses a longer case is that it then can't be used in .38 special guns, kabooming them.

But if someone is rolling their own, they can go higher pressure, if they're willing to take the risk that their gun will deal with the higher pressure.

Another issue here goes to the question of how many shooters load their own? If the guess is 10%, it's probably high.

Edit: and G-man hit the button right before I did.

Couldn't that be said for 9mm also?
 

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Actually I know where G-man is going with this. If you're willing to ignore SAAMI pressure specification, .38 spl cases can be easily loaded to .357 magnum pressures. The .38 pressure specifications are based on really old guns meant to fire black powder cartridges. The only reason .357 magnum uses a longer case is that it then can't be used in .38 special guns, kabooming them.

But if someone is rolling their own, they can go higher pressure, if they're willing to take the risk that their gun will deal with the higher pressure.

Another issue here goes to the question of how many shooters load their own? If the guess is 10%, it's probably high.

Edit: and G-man hit the button right before I did.
Yes. That pretty much covers it.
I’m not really desiring to try and get in to 357 mag velocity with a 38, but in a pinch, one could.

However, older 38 spl data is quite a bit more potent than what we see with factory ammo today....same with the 357 magnum on average; probably because of the popularity of the j magnums.

There is another work around possible with the 38 spl, which is one that I use, and that is to use lswc bullets driven to low velocities. I prefer this approach because it guarantees penetration to the goods, and is low recoil and easy on the guns.

I don’t put a lot of value in velocity or the notion of a shock factor if the bullet is moving below 2000 fps.
 

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to me its still more about the launch platform....not the individual caliber.....that said, i will still avoid moon clip guns for cc.

the only 9mm revolver i want is a ruger blackhawk dual cylinder 357/9mm....more of a "just in case" madd max limited thing than any actual need.

actually......its just another excuse for another gun..... ;)
 

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to me its still more about the launch platform....not the individual caliber.....that said, i will still avoid moon clip guns for cc.

the only 9mm revolver i want is a ruger blackhawk dual cylinder 357/9mm....more of a "just in case" madd max limited thing than any actual need.

actually......its just another excuse for another gun..... ;)
Yes, same here. Launch platform is simple, handy, and suits me just fine.
354320


I have always thought that Ruger Blackhawk 38/357/9mm would be the perfect gun to have for reasons you suggested!
 

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Gentlemen,
I think we are overlooking the fact that accuracy not bullet speed is the key to stopping a threat. In the world of "what if" you can always play the faster or bigger game!

12 inches of penetration with adequate expansion is what I look for with bullet performance with a revolver or micro 9.

Moreover, I would not put my mark of approval on a round just because the FBI authorizes it. Does anyone remember Gold Dot G2 recall?

Yes, they do a lot of testing and I have reviewed a lot of their work however, I have found differences when testing the same ammunition. See G2 recall.

It comes down to the fact that they have their preferences in what works vs what doesn't and they like rounds with limited expansion and deep penetration.

One last thing....are these photographs of your actual carry gear? I am asking because my leather gear/holsters and guns are scratched and/or worn and are ugly compared to what I see in these photographs?
 

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to me its still more about the launch platform....not the individual caliber.....that said, i will still avoid moon clip guns for cc.

the only 9mm revolver i want is a ruger blackhawk dual cylinder 357/9mm....more of a "just in case" madd max limited thing than any actual need.

actually......its just another excuse for another gun..... ;)
Once I sold my last 9mm I thought about a dual cylinder Blackhawk myself since I had a couple thousand rounds of 9mm. Decided to sell my ammo to my son instead since he still has his G19 and VP9.
The idea of a semi auto cartridge in a revolver just seems to remove the reliability factor in an EDC gun since auto cartridges are not crimped for revolver level recoil and your back to "proofing" ammo that will work in your gun. Part of the reason I am all wheelguns is no need to proof hundreds of rounds to vet reliability in today's ammo market.
 

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The idea of a semi auto cartridge in a revolver just seems to remove the reliability factor in an EDC gun since auto cartridges are not crimped for revolver level recoil and your back to "proofing" ammo
Never considered that point of view...taper vs roll crimp in a revolver.
I would tend to think that a heavy gun like the Blackhawk would not allow enough recoil with a 9mm for inertia to have that effect?
 

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Gentlemen,
One last thing....are these photographs of your actual carry gear? I am asking because my leather gear/holsters and guns are scratched and/or worn and are ugly compared to what I see in these photographs?
Ive only had this particular Don Hume pocket holster for about 7 months or so, and you can see that it’s starting to show some signs of wear and a few scratches in the leather, probably from me cramming spent casings in my pocket so I won’t lose them.
 
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