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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have tons of cheap .223 laying around but I don't have very much of the good stuff.

I'd like to get some 5.56 ammo with either a big 77grain OTM bullet or some Barnes TSX (or even some Federal Bonded). Anyone have a line on who is selling the "good stuff" in quantity?
 

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Are you looking for reloading components or loaded ammunition?



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I guess it all comes down to what we consider the "good stuff" to be. I thought lake city XM193 was as close to GI issue as one could get. I mean I have more expensive stuff, some hollow points, etc, but I always kinda liked that lake city stuff, and held it back.
 

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Be careful with the 77 grain stuff. Longer bullets require faster twists.

The 77 grain bullet will need a faster twist (1/7) to stabilize. If you don't have that, you wont be satisfied with the accuracy of it.

Trust me. It's the very reason that some barrels are 1/7 vs, the standard 1/9.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Are you looking for reloading components or loaded ammunition?
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Loaded.

I guess it all comes down to what we consider the "good stuff" to be. I thought lake city XM193 was as close to GI issue as one could get. I mean I have more expensive stuff, some hollow points, etc, but I always kinda liked that lake city stuff, and held it back.
I don't consider ball the good stuff. The good stuff has the type of bullets I asked about in my OP.

Be careful with the 77 grain stuff. Longer bullets require faster twists.

The 77 grain bullet will need a faster twist (1/7) to stabilize. If you don't have that, you wont be satisfied with the accuracy of it.

Trust me. It's the very reason that some barrels are 1/7 vs, the standard 1/9.
I got 1 in 7. It's for HD anyhow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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Ck Shotgun Supply in Anniston, AL 256-235-2780

I was there today and they had cases of ammo stacked all over. I was shocked to find as much powder as I did. Picked up Benchmark and Win231 at near pre stupid pricing.
 

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Be careful with the 77 grain stuff. Longer bullets require faster twists.

The 77 grain bullet will need a faster twist (1/7) to stabilize. If you don't have that, you wont be satisfied with the accuracy of it.

Trust me. It's the very reason that some barrels are 1/7 vs, the standard 1/9.
^^^What he said^^^! I have been wanting to try some of that ammo in my S&W MP-15 w/ a (1/8) barrel and see how it shoots but I haven't been able to find any reasonable.
 

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You have the proper twist rate for a 77gr bullet? Most modern AR's have twist rates for the common military spec 55gr bullets. You might not get such good performance with a heavier bullet.
 

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You have the proper twist rate for a 77gr bullet? Most modern AR's have twist rates for the common military spec 55gr bullets. You might not get such good performance with a heavier bullet.
A 1:7 twist rate like Timmy said he has would be a good match for the heavier bullets being discussed.

55gr will work in a 1:7, but the heavier bullets generally perform better with that rate. Similarly, a 1:9 twist rate does better with mid weight bullets.

It should be noted, as Shotguns said, the length of the bullet actually makes more difference in relation to the twist rate than bullet weight, but for discussion sake (since bullets are generally referred to by weight instead of length), those are pretty decent guidelines.

Edit: Modern ARs run the gambit with twist rates, with 1:9 1:8 and 1:7 all being fairly common from major manufacturers.
 

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Could I buy one of your tons of 223 so you might have more $ to buy your good stuff?
 
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You have the proper twist rate for a 77gr bullet? Most modern AR's have twist rates for the common military spec 55gr bullets. You might not get such good performance with a heavier bullet.
Are you aware that the common twist rate on military issue M16/M4 is 1:7, and that the standard issue round-M855--is a 62gr bullet?
 

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Edit - Cuda66 beat me to it! - it looks like a couple beat me to the length vs weight issue as well. - Edit

Guys, modern military ammo is m855 62gr, mk262 mod 1 77gr, Brown Tip 70gr Optimized and MK318 62gr. There is no 55gr currently in use. M193 is from decades past though it's still offered for sale.

The TDP specifies a 1:7 twist. All rifles in service have a 1:7 twist or 1:8 I'd were talking about the MK12 mod 1.

A 1:7 from a quality manufacturer will stabilize 55gr through 77gr. Some 1:9 barrels will as well but I have no use for them and are generally reserved for hobby grade rifles.

Remember that the twist rate and stabilization concern is not about bullet weight but bullet length. It just so happens that heavier bullets are longer. All copper bullets like TSX are longer than jacketed bullets. A 70gr TSX is as long if not longer than 77gr smk. 50gr TSX is longer than 55gr FMJ. So, just because one 1:9 barrel stabilizes 77gr smk, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll stabilize 70gr TSX.
 

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The 223 and 5.56 in 55 gr was designed for the 20 inch barrel with 1 in 12, worked fine
Then came the M4 16 inch barrel they needed to go with a 1 in 7 and heavier round the 5.56 62 gr, AKA the green tip .
Don't really madder a whole lot who makes it these are not sniper rifles.
Lake city has done a good job.
 

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You have the proper twist rate for a 77gr bullet? Most modern AR's have twist rates for the common military spec 55gr bullets. You might not get such good performance with a heavier bullet.
'Common military spec' bullets are XM193 (55gr), XM855 (62gr), and MK262 (77gr), and to go along with that, yes 1:7 is the correct twist.

It should be noted, as Shotguns said, the length of the bullet actually makes more difference in relation to the twist rate than bullet weight, but for discussion sake (since bullets are generally referred to by weight instead of length), those are pretty decent guidelines.
Definitely! I've been surprised by some of the 70gr ones I've bought that look like 80gr bullets (in terms of length) they're huge! Hornady 55gr TAC next to a Hornady 70gr GMX



The TDP specifies a 1:7 twist. All rifles in service have a 1:7 twist or 1:8 I'd were talking about the MK12 mod 1.
Really? The MK12 I had was a 1:7
 

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My one early Galil has a 1:12 twist rate and it handles M193 with incredible accuracy which absolutely goes not quite to Hell but, close with heavier weight bullets.
If you're going to invest in top dollar ammo - buy what your rifle was intended to handle best.
In a pinch you can shoot anything but, don't have great expectations in driving tacks because you will not have a tack driver in your hands.
 

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Really? The MK12 I had was a 1:7

No, not really. It's a 1:7. I was thinking of stainless barrels and completely blanked out on the Douglass being 1:7.

M193 - it's no longer issued nd the last purchase contract was in something like 08 for the Air Force who still has some A1's.

National Guard still uses it for training and that's also common with some military units. So, for all intents and purposes, military ammunition is 62gr m855, m855a1 and MK318 with a good bit of mk262 77gr being used by special operations and snipers using the MK12 5.56. Special Operations is also using 70gr Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX bullet loaded hot) and the occasional 75gr TAP T2.
 

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You should try some of the Hornady Superformance ammo. I put three rounds through the same hole at 100 yards with it from a bench rest. It is available in 55 grain and 75 grain.
 
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