With a Bersa Thunder with a 15R mag I'll huff I'll puff and I'll blow those BGs DOWN!!

 

Heck, I've been researching carry guns that are larger than PPK size in .32 ACP for a friend that's recoil sensitive. There's a market for just about everything.

But more pertinent to your post: Because .380 is easier to make reliable in those sizes.

Thus far 9mm's of the sizes you are referring to have shown to be very difficult to make reliable. There's been recalls of those little 9mm's over and over and over in the last few months, even with modern design concepts and big dollar companies making them (some are reliable for sure, not trying to say they're bad guns, just trying to illustrate how new the concept of reliable 9's of those sizes/weights are...many are literally just in the last couple months getting the designs perfected). Yet europe and the soviets have been pounding out drop dead reliable .380's/9x18 maks that size for the better half of a century, made by the lowest bidder or comrade peasants (respectively).

The time will come when 9mm's will largely replace .380/9x18 mak in that size range. And we may be on the very cusp of that time. But it's not quite here yet. The good designs seem to be coming into being right now. Now they just have to take the time to prove themselves long term

 

So begs the question: why choose a Bersa Thunder, Walter PPK or similar "big .380's"?

The fact is, some of the small .380s have been around a long time, are proven good designs, very reliable and accurate. A couple of them fall into the elite category of "world class". Some people feel that having a great gun, that is easy to shoot very well, is more important than a more powerful round. A Beretta with 14 rounds or a Bersa with 16 rounds is still very concealable, but allows a respectable amount of firepower.

I had to pry my hand off of my much loved Beretta 84 several years ago to change to a HK. Simply put, I was very good with the Beretta, maybe the best shooting, most naturally pointing gun I've come across. The fact that it never ever failed to work was also a huge factor.

 

I like the Beretta 84, it's a great choice for someone who has problems with a larger caliber or who is afraid of recoil.

 

Boy, I guess I was having a bad day and didn't even know it. Good thing I no longer re-load...

Beretta 83, 85 - Single stack
Beretta 84 - Double stack
Makarov (slide mounted safety) [I hate slide mounted safeties.]

No, I haven't the foggiest idea why I forgot the Colt Mustang. D'oh! I guess I took it for granted. Who knows, maybe in 30 years we'll look back and think of the SIG P238 and P938s as classics. Me, personally, I don't think they have the smooth classic lines of the P230/P232. Chances are that by then a lot of today's little poly .380s will be long forgotten.

 

My P230 and P239 are roughly the same size length wise but the P230 is way thinner and lighter. Conceals much better.

That's very important when you live in a heavily liberal area.

 

I bet if I shoot you in the heart or between the eyes with a .380 you'll be just as dead as if I used a 9mm, .40, or .45 ACP. It's not so much the caliber of gun as it is the aim of the shooter. If someone is skillful with a .380, there's no reason for them to get a .45 unless he wants one (and I did!).

 

Without turning this into a caliber war, picking a larger caliber is like picking a larger car. Sure a Smart Fourtwo will technically keep you alive in a collision but you buy the truck or SUV to up your odds.


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Don't forget the PP(K) which is what the Bersa Thunder and the Sig...something are copied from was designed in like 1929. Back then that was an incredibly small handgun.

 

If you make decisions based strictly on ballistics, you might conclude the mid-large 380's are pointless. If you take other things into account, the story changes.

My Wife has a Bersa 380. When she decided she wanted a pistol and her HCP, we went to one of the largest shops in the area and after some extremely brief brief discussion on caliber, during which I fully understand she could have cared less for most of it, we decided on .380 as the minimum caliber she would look at. Her only specific at this point was no revolvers (didn't like the flash/smoke of my .38 D frame). After handling a number of options, she fired a Bersa .380 as a test, marched back upstairs to the sales counter and said she didn't like the grips, too slippery. She then tried the same gun with rubber grips. Sold. Bottom line, she picked out what she was comfortable handling and operating. After a box of ammo for practice/break-in, she proceeded to score 100% on the range portion of her HCP course. She could care less about the differences between 380 and 9mm as long as the 380 is effective. At SD distances with modern SD ammo, she's confident and happy with her choice, and so am I. Heck, I would like to have the cc version of the bersa for occasional carry, but I can't justify it. I do plan on buying the .22 version of her Bersa for plinking and practice. To each his/her own choices, esp when those choices are made with knowledge. Everything is a compromise in some way.

 

The idea that a handgun, any handgun is a "man stopper" I believe is silly. The energy produced by a handgun rounds is measured in hundreds of foot pounds. A rifle is measured in thousands. That I why my personal belief is the most important factor is the ability to hit the target with combat accuracy not once but at least 2-3 times.

Whatever that is for you with consideration lifestyle , dress etc is what you should carry.




Go Seahawks!

 

The idea that a handgun, any handgun is a "man stopper" I believe is silly...

Believe what you want, but I have personally seen a handgun stop a man on several occasions - and it didn't even have to be fired.

 

I had a Beretta 84 and absolutely loved it. It is the one gun I wish I had never traded. I know people say .380's are under powered, but my 84 was a sweet shooter, extremely accurate, and as I recall, shot placement is an important characteristic in defensive shooting. My 84 but the bullet where I was aiming. I was very comfortable carrying my 84 anywhere. Dang, I wish I still had it.

 

This .380 served me well for many years.

SEECAMP LWS380 before Engraving:

 

My wife picked a .380 as her first SD gun because it was easy to rack and she had no problem with the recoil. She now also has a 2.5 inch .357 revolver that she shoots .38+P and a 17 round 9mm. For some people it is better to learn on a pistol they can handle and then work up to handle more recoil.

 

I like to call 380s "feel good guns", they're guns that make you feel good about your self. the owners know theyre not true man stoppers, they just carry them for added confidence.

I should know, I used to carry a PT-22, then realized they offer no realistic advantage, other than being a noise maker.

 

I dont want to get shot with a .380 Dont think anyone else does.

 

Super Duty Ford. I'd take the Smart - I'm a Chevy guy.

 

Oh good catch. I googled and one image with a Ram truck stuck in my head. I'm a Chrysler guy at heart


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What's nopt to like

Beretta 85 (real class)



FEG (Copy of Walther PPK/S)



Bersa CC .380 (My first one did not work too well but loved the gun. Will try another one someday)



Sig 238 (picked up a 938 and sold it 3 weeks later. Too snappy)



One of 3 Sig 230 and 232's I own (Real class and would bet my life on one)



Sig230 in .32 AP (If it worked forte Japanese Police, it should work for me)



Browning BDA (The King of them all/ 13 or so rounds)



Just some thoughts

Trooper Joe

 

One of 3 Sig 230 and 232's I own (Real class and would bet my life on one)

Beautiful! IMHO, one of the finest pistols ever made.

Browning BDA (The King of them all/ 13 or so rounds)

Wait a minute! Another masterpiece, for sure, but how can the BDA be "King of them all", when it's actually a re-branded Beretta M84??? A fine pistol in its own right, but if you're going to call it "King", give credit where credit's due (Beretta)! :yup:

 

A huge reason that full sized .380s exist has already been pointed out- in some parts of Europe it's illegal for a civilian to own a handgun in any military caliber. So now 9mms or .45 ACP, and .40 S&W isn't as common everywhere as in the US. Presumably the latter would be a good choice for some that can't have a military caliber provided ammo could be found.

Personally I think the 9mm is fine and .380 is marginal. Obviously everyone has a "slippery slope" idea of what is big enough and what is not. My issues with the .380 are 1) lack of SAAMI and the lack of penetration. While it's true that bad guys aren't made of gelatin that substance is pretty useful for comparing all bullets on a level playing field. With expanding ammo it's tough to get enough penetration from a .380 to make me comfortable carrying it, and loading it to try to reach 9mm velocity is problematic with no SAAMI spec. Bear in mind that there are a lot of old .380 handguns out there of dubious construction; therefore loadings typically aren't all that hot. I suppose maybe Underwood or Buffalo Bore might load something pretty serviceable if you have a robust modern firearm to use them in.

I basically agree with the OP. I don't see an awful lot of point to a full sized .380 for most folks. It's hard to imagine recoil would be significantly less in such a large gun vs a 9mm of the same size. But certainly it would be better in a confrontation than harsh language!:danceban:

 

Carry a PPK around IWB and you will get the picture.

 

I had a Bersa 380 that was soooooo accurate and was accurate with fast follow up shots....I own a Taurus TCP which has so far been a fine weapon ...but size wise it is no more concealable than a Bersa ...now weight wise the TCP is much lighter....but not that much difference in carry OWB or pocket carry...in fact if I could sell the TCP ..I would pick up another Bersa ..maybe the combat model (combat 380 ?) looks cool..

What got me into Bersa's was a Makarov in 9mm Mak...the Bersa is smaller and not as powerful but similar feel...

In fact I always felt better armed with the Bersa than my TCP ..it may just be in my head but I can shoot the Bersa much more accurately than the TCP ...nothin against the TCP ..but the little Bersa just was a point and shoot...for me at least..

 

What got me into Bersa's was a Makarov in 9mm Mak...

Supposedly there are two different Maks - the East German Maks in 9x18 Makarov and the West German Maks in 9x17 Kurz (.380). So if you come across a Mak that says Kurz on the slide - it's a .380.

Ripley,

I want that P232 with the wood grips. Man, what a beauty! I am so envious it hurts. :biggrin2: What model pistol is the one above the P232 with rubber grips?

 

More in an upcoming pistol review, but I had a brief session at the range on my lunch hour with a Remington Model 51 that was acquired from a kind DC forum member some months back. For a .380 automatic that may be enjoyed for its shooting qualities, this one is tops! No shrunken .380 runt pistol need apply.

 

Classic!

 

.. yes, and the other reason, (I forgot), for larger .380s is; because they are gorgeous! Quality and looks equals a good combination. Love my .380s. :hand10:

 

I got a Sig 232 (PPK) and a Ruger LC9 ...... the Ruger has less recoil, and is 'Butt ugly' plastic. But the Ruger is 'dependable', and a safe gun. The Sig is a beauty queen and can come into action quicker. The Sig is a little more 'pocket friendly'.

'Point and shoot' - the Ruger ain't bad. And I own 95% 9mm guns, and ammo being common is a good thing. I really look at dependability as a key factor.

 

Does the SIG 232 have the rear sight mounted backwards?

You can rack the slide on your belt.

 

Really? Wow! :smiley2:

 

the slightly larger frame and weight absorbs the recoil better so a smaller person can shoot it more reliably If it hurts to shoot it you wont practice with it, if you dont KNOW YOUR gun it could KILL YOU!