Defensive Carry banner

61 - 80 of 94 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,077 Posts
I remember the popularity of army surplus stores in the seventies and eighties, heck they were still around in the nineties. All kinds of people went for what's called"Tactical"now. Surfers, hippies, jocks,bikers,outdoorsmen. Still have an alice pack. I've used some kind of backpack for work or travel since my teens.
Maybe I might be in danger of taking two to the chest and one to the head if I have a pack on my vest at the wrong place and time. Nah,not where I live.

Wasn't so long ago I'd expect a guy covered in tattoos to be carrying a weapon, but that isn't even close to being true.
Well maybe now that I think about it it was long ago
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,309 Posts
I have a bunch of vests, but not a single one is a 'fishing' vest. Fishing vests are typically too short as they are made to ride high to keep from getting wet as you wade out into the water. I have simple vests and cargo vests. I even have a couple atypical birding vests that I sometimes wear. However, back around the turn of the century when we had two babies, my 5.11 vests were the bomb. I was able to OWB a pistol and mags as well as carrying a bottle for the baby, powder, oinment (all in the water bottle pockets), spare diapers (map pocket), hand sanitizer, cheerios, and small baby toys in the cargo front pockets, etc. No diaper bag necessary.

Since Texas relaxed its laws and changed from CHL to LTC and allowed for open carry, I don't worry so much about being spotted or the occasional printing and so don't wear my vests as often anymore. I try to remain concealed, but no longer fear being in violation of the law.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,935 Posts
Well, here's my take on this discussion:

First, I see two basic types of criminals that we would likely run into, say in a store, 7-11, etc. One type is your basic low-wattage bulb....probably crashing from their last fix, and looking to score some $$ so they can go buy and get another fix. They are not going to look around for a potential threat, unless they see an Officer/Deputy in uniform...they will likely be fixated on the person(s) behind the counter where the money is. Because they are irrational, probably crashing, they are very unpredictable, and like a rabid dog where the disease has gotten into the brain...liable to do anything.

The other type criminal is more methodical and calculating. They will be the ones to go in, case out a place, check it out for benefit/risk and then make a move, or move on, whichever seems to be the most advantageous to them. This is the type that will spot us.....but probably not because we are wearing a "shoot me first" vest, or a Glock logo baseball hat. They will see us being more situationaly aware, head on a swivel, paying attention to what's going on around us. They will see us...seeing them. Then, they may check out apparel, look for printing, etc. Being practiced predators, they will (likely) weigh the risk/benefit and choose their options that favor them surviving.

There are those rare, pure sociopaths, who will spot us, again, more by our demeanor. For them, the risk factor is lower, because they don't believe that they can lose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
5.11 vest daily for years.
retired, mountain community, hunters, fisherpeople, hikers, mountainbikers, small city nearby, hike the trails every day.
i don't like carrying stuff in my pants pockets, keys only.
in the vest i carry a small camera, phone, poop bags for the dog, spare leash, carabiner, wallet, knife, pepper spray, reading glasses, note pad, pen, 2 water bottle pockets in back of vest (VERY important), small water dish for dog, and a great cover garment for IWB @3.
on the trails, in the forest, in the stores, walking around town, nobody bats an eye.
when i get home, vest comes off, hung over chair for tomorrow, water bottles refilled & in the fridge.
i've never found a vest as versatile, though if there are any, i'd like to know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,079 Posts
I live in Cargo Shorts for up to 8 months a year. Half the guys you see wear them. Cargo pants are dress pants to me. The only time I’ll wear dress pants is at Funerals and Weddings. I think the only time I can tell a gun carrier is if they want me to know. What ever reason that would be. I’ve only spotted one gun carrier since January. We are spending the Winter in Florida. I saw a guy wipe out on his Bicycle. He was carrying a semi auto on his hip. When he went down he jumped up and ran behind a parked car. When he returned to the bike the gun and holster were clearly Printing. This was a polo shirt and regular shorts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I wear whatever makes me feel comfortable and seems appropriate for the occasion. I have come to believe that being calm and cool headed is important while carrying and this comes from feeling confident.

Confidence is key and I find that I'm most confident when I am comfortable.

Howard, I always enjoy and learn from your videos. Thanks as always!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
401 Posts
I rarely wear a vest in warm weather. Otherwise it’s jeans, running shoes and short socks, and a long sleeve shirt with the tail out if needed to conceal.

Really, I pretty much dress like a lesbian. It hasn’t gotten me shot, yet. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
HR, I'm inclined to agree. Most criminals aren't usually sizing you up, unless you are the intended target or happen to be standing in very close proximity to them while they are sizing up a target.
In fact, I arrested a brilliant armed robber in a convenience store while I was in full Police Uniform. He walked past me and was so hyped and keyed up on the clerk and cash register, that either he didn't see me or it just didn't register in his mind as he passed by. He told the clerk to give him all of his money and lifted his shirt and showed him a Hi-Point 9mm he had stuck in his waistband. I simply walked up behind him and leveled my Commander at him and reached for his gun and took it, and asked him, do you really want to do that? The look on his face was sheer amazement, that a Cop had miraculously appeared out of thin air and got the drop on him. Handcuffs were next. Then a ride in the Woo-Woo Taxi to the local slam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,127 Posts
There are plenty of really smart people who don't know what they don't know. A person can get a different perspective on the methodology of criminals once they have become apprised of how they train in jails and prisons. Lockup ( to a large) is the master class for future criminals. There are plenty of examples where criminals have explained their target hierarchy. Sure.. some criminal acts are near mindless in regards to how it is carried out but there are also a concerning amount of crimes that are carried out according to a thoughtful method. The latter are the subject of many training modules which are not always readily disseminated for public consumption.

I am not suggesting that people not wear those cameraman vests, riggers belts or some manner of tacticalish pants. Go ahead.

What I will say that criminals to a large degree, birddog for cops or anything that looks or smells like a cop, security or any other capable threat which is likely to be invested in their capture. How they respond to such a threat substantially depends of what is happening and what has happened. I also depends of where they [are] in regards to the criminal act itself ( have the committed any overt acts/ has the crime begun) and whether or not escape and abort is feasible.

People can debate all day long on the likelihood of a violent criminal responding violently to a perceived threat (or not) but that is probably the subject of a different thread altogether.

People often say .. well, I do XYZ and never experienced a problem. What I say to that is that I never once wore a seatbelt in my entire life until the mid 90s when it became law. Guess what?.. I never had a problem. Why?.. because certain conditions did not arise for me. It doesn't mean that riding around without a seatbelt for more than 30 years was a prudent decision on my part.

Understanding a criminals ( or enemy) method of target hierarchy is a common element of training for police, soldiers and those who work within the arena of protective services. There are psychological aspects as well as trained/learned criminal method aspects. How you appear in public ( your personal projection) can speak volumes to someone seeking to form an tactical opinion of you. If a person cant imagine how that might be good in some instances and perhaps bad in others, I would say they are likely blinded by some form of bias. Whether or not looking like a cop, soldier, secret agent or some tactical fanboy, is actually a good or bad thing will depend on many issues outside our control. Each person gets to judge for themselves.

On cameraman vests, fanny packs, tactical pants, rigger belts, military haircuts, how you walk, how you talk, verbal cadence, your footwear, how you occupy space, how you regard others around you, how you observe and survey the world around you, how you position yourself when you stand ( arms, legs, foot position), the presence of absence of personal identifiers, your level of fitness, a disproportionate physique ( built arms, weak legs) . These are all little things that many "street/lockup-educated" badguys are going to take note of. I do not say that to suggest that a person not wear vests or tacticalish clothing. All I am saying that is the certain presentations can be considered a "cue" and when you add enough cues together, you may begin form a picture. You get to assign the level of risk associated with what I described. Perhaps you consider it zero. Honestly though, camera vests and fanny packs have existed in the American psyche as being synonymous with GUN for decades now.

Me personally, I wear utilitarian style clothing... khaki pants, moisture wicking black or navy blue shirt ( worn outside pant), lug-sole leather oxfords. If I want to be tactical I will wear some filson bib overalls. It suits me, its comfortable and I am not trying to project any sort of "operator-mystique".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
I’ve never worried about my vest at all, I bought mine off of Amazon on sale for ten bucks. I wear it all the time when walking, shopping whatever. I use both OWB and IWB holsters with it as well, with no trouble at all.

As for the “shoot me first” issues I never worry about that because anytime I’m carrying out in public my head is on a swivel, and anyone else who carries regardless of method of concealment should be doing the same.

The one time I did get “made” was back in 2014 when 2 SAPD officers saw me walk into a local Valero while I was getting a bottled water and sodas for my boys and one remarked “nice vest” with a smile; I knew exactly what he was alluding to when I said thanks and on the way out his partner said “thanks for the support we sure could use it nowadays”.

Not a problem officer......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,077 Posts
I'm getting to the age where to many pockets cause problems.lol. I'm not going to worry about what I look like to a population with a phone stuck to their faces. If I need a vest with pockets I'll use one.

Maybe this vest question is really only a concern because of a population obsessed with the image they're projecting outward. I have noticed an uptick with the "operator" look obsession since the forever wars began and Hollywood got into the act.

The vest discussed has always reminded me of Henry Blake from Mash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,127 Posts
Most criminals aren't usually sizing you up, unless you are the intended target or happen to be standing in very close proximity to them while they are sizing up a target
On the contrary, predatory criminals routinely "size people up" by default, not necessarily by specific need. Essentially sizing up everyone.. all the time.

When it is necessary, one common consideration among criminals is to survey all persons who likely have the capacity to hinder them within the time it takes them to secure escape. The longer it takes to secure escape the more likely that the criminal will utilize additional observers. That is a lot more than "the target" and "those in very close proximity". It can mean everyone in the room and everyone easily within 50 feet of your escape route.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,935 Posts
I wear a Scotte vest that my wife bought for me, in cooler weather. Anything above 50 and I am in shorts and a light cover shirt concealing.

https://www.scottevest.com/

All the pockets are on the inside. All my stuff is concealed, someone wishes to make issue, that is their problem.
In your case Bob it wouldn't matter anyway, you'd still look like a copper while wearing one piece pajamas. :tongue:






I do like the looks of those vests, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,765 Posts
In your case Bob it wouldn't matter anyway, you'd still look like a copper while wearing one piece pajamas. :tongue:
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.

download (1).jpg

Bunny Bob just doesn't create the same mental image as @Bad Bob.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,396 Posts
If you are watching and paying attention to what is going on around you when you are carrying, as you very well should be doing anyway, you should see anyone that comes around acting suspiciously or paying too much attention to you.

I attracted the attention of store security one time simply because I looked at him as intently as he looked at me. When he started following me, I doubled back and met him face to face at the end of the isle. He was startled to say the least. I asked him why he was following me. He denied it at first but I called out each turn he had made and from what isle I had picked him up in. He then told me that I was suspicious because I looked at him. I told him that he was suspicious because he looked at me. He finally told me he worked in the store and had to look at customers. I told him he should not make it so obvious and he said most people never even notice him tailing them and this includes those shoplifting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
I’ve never worried about my vest at all, I bought mine off of Amazon on sale for ten bucks. I wear it all the time when walking, shopping whatever. I use both OWB and IWB holsters with it as well, with no trouble at all.
Which vest is it on Amazon? I'm interested in getting one and could use recommendations.
 
61 - 80 of 94 Posts
Top