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Many of you heard President Obama's speech tonight as he makes his final push for a government takeover of the health care industry.

I am a longtime participant in the great American experiment. I have regularly voted, written my state & national reps and tried to do the right thing as best I can.

I'm sure you have done the same on a number of issues. I know you care deeply about the 2A rights we currently enjoy and want to see them become even more cemented in the fabric of our nation.

I do not know how many of you have considered this but under the banner of "public health" there is a very high probability that our gun rights will be threatened, if not eliminated altogether. It is not difficult to imagine a bill being introduced sometime in the next 4-6 years that requires a home to be "gun-free" if children are home as guns are a threat to public health, and thus, a cost to us all, since we all share our healthcare.

NOTE TO MODS: I searched a lot of the board material to be sure this was OK to post here. I am not trying to make this message board into something it is not. I honestly believe that this nationalization of health care could crush our 2A rights.

It is imperative that we work together right now (not after a bill becomes law) to stop a government takeover of the health care industry. Please... write your Congressman. I live in a state that may actually resist nationalized health care (Texas) via the 10th Amendment. However, many of you live in other states that are uncertain about which way they may go. So please... write your Congressman and tell him or her that you do not want to see a government takeover of your health care because it could affect a number of personal rights you enjoy today, not the least of which is your right to own firearms!
 

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I think the connection of health care and gun rights is a cynical way to scare gun owners into opposing any form of health care reform. The whole idea that this would eliminate gun rights, health care choice, or any of the things that are being said about it is absolute nonsense.

I'm opposed to Obama's views on guns, but we're all served very badly when we follow the herd and allow ourselves to be manipulated. Remember that it was Reagan who was in office when machine guns were restricted, and President Bush famously said that he'd sign a new assault weapon ban if it came across his desk. Republican leaders are interested in gun owners as weapons against democrats, not because they have the slightest bit of respect for gun rights. They'll cheerfully use our votes and then go against us in congress because they know most of us will never vote democrat anyway.

In summary: this is a manufactured scare, not a genuine problem.
 

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Quite the contrary dnowell.

I've got to disagree whole heartedly with you. There are many things that motivate one to believe that something cant happen, but are those things which motivates based on anything with substance.

History tells us everything that the original poster said is historically accurate and therefore if accurate historically it must mean that history will repeat it's self.

You apparently are a big fan of nationalizing health care, apparently like all liberals whom support the president and his radical ideas they hit and run hard as if they were not there just to lay the blame on anyone or anything that opposes them.

I live in Woodstock, GA, I'm a proud conservative, a veteran of our finest Naval combat forces, and I DO NOT support this radical anti-American agenda or nationalizing our freedoms away.

Where do you live my good sir? I notice you put USA? Not my business but are you afraid of letting your fellow Americans know your proud of your state or are you sincerely proud of your (state - centralized govt state that is).

I fear healthcare take over and I fear more than anything that it will in fact crush our gun rights therefore leaving us all a big pile of bleeding and weeping sheep waiting on the slaughter house of govt.

Can you back up your claims that this is manufactured? Obama and his whack loony bin team of czars have given my fellow countrymen and women enough evidence of the reality of what they are capable of and will do.

Where is your evidence to back up the manufacturing of this so called scare?
 

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Looking at the obamessiah, and the people he has surrounded himself with, I can see, if history is any indicator, that gun control via Health Care "Reform" is a possibility.

Biker
 

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Boy, don't get me started on this one... I could speak on this in depth for hours.

What I will say is when people attempt to compare what this present administration is attempting to accomplish, to the Nazi Party, there is a lot of historical truth to that.

And before anything can be explained in rational terms based on historical fact, the far left liberal attack dogs following the script laid out in Saul Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals" immediately start to shout you down, not allow a word of fact in edgewise. They immediate tell everyone you are trying to compare Obama to Adolph Hitler. Typical Left Wing Radical Smear Tactics! As soon as they hear the word Nazi, they attempt to inflame everyone by calling you a racist and refer to the genocide Hitler committed against the Jews and tell everyone that is the comparison we attempt to make with Obama.

That is absurd, and they know it! But they are afraid of facts! They are always afraid of facts.

When comparing the Nazi's to what people see happening in this country, it is based on facts which can not be disputed! Let me explain.

First, the word Nazi is taken from the German word National Socialists and refers to the political party National Socialist German Workers Party. It was comprised of elements of both left and right wing politics and considered by political scholars to be Fascism! Remember, Socialism is where the Government owns all the Corporations, and Fascism is where Government allows ownership of business to remain in the private sector, but the Government calls all the shots and tells them what to do. They comply If they want to remain out of prison, or didn't want to get shot.

First Nazi Germany nationalized the banking industry, then they nationalized the automobile industry, followed by nationalizing health care. It was only after that was accomplished that Hitler came after the guns. And if I recall correctly, at least a good portion of the gun confiscation was done in the name of safety, and as a matter of public health. Now Hitler was quite insane and wasn't until later years when the genocide started and that aspect is not what is being compared! However, the comparison of what Hitler and the Nazi party did in the early 1930's to gain control of the people, is exactly like what is happening here in the USA, except of course, no one is being shot.

Now when Germany took over the banks, the auto industry and health care, it was left in the private sector. But the Government was in fact the ones running it. That is Fascism.

Now this is all recorded in history which is really undisputed. Except for when the far left wing radical "community organizers," following Alinsky's playbook, "Rules For Radicals," start to shout you down, and attack you calling us racists and right wing kooks and attempt to get the masses to look in the other direction.

Now, what has happened since January 2009? We have bailed out the banks... Not all of them, but most of the major players and essentially made a big leap towards completely nationalizing them. Without any legitimate authority from the Constitution, Congress or otherwise, Obama fired the CEO of General Motors, a "private corporation" and replaced him with one of his left wing radical stooges and we bailed out most of the auto industry, again essentially nationalizing it. Oh, the auto industry and the banking industry, is still technically in the hands of the private sector... But is there any doubt as to who is calling the shots?

What's next? Nationalizing Health Care of course! We are seeing that play out right before our very eyes. And make no mistake about it. It has nothing to do with health care! Or, providing insurance to those who don't have it. It is about power and control. It is a way to circumvent the Constitution in order to have as much government control over every individual citizen's life as possible, under the guise of health care. Everything they tell us to do, will be for the good of all and they have the right to do it because they are paying the bill for everyone's health care. This is what all the hoopla and outrage over the "single payer" government coverage is about. This was all supposed to be a done deal secretly before Congress had the August break. But people caught on and actually started to read the 1000 page House Bill on Health Care presented on the internet.

But rest assured... If all this passes... Do not think for a minute that they can't come in and try to ban guns in the name of Public Health!

They have already been laying the ground work for more than a decade with getting the doctors in line as with the American Academy of Pediatrics posting a bogus study about guns in the home are 40% more likely to kill or injure you than you actually using your gun to thwart a crime. And they, along with other medical groups as well as people in the Government have been saying that guns are a health care epidemic which use up billions of our health care dollars.

So, is it far fetched to think that this health care initiative can be a road to banning guns?

I don't know... You tell me!

Who the hell want's to believe this? It's pretty hard to swallow for most American's... Why? Because, like everyone always says... This is America! It won't happen here!

Well, look at Canada. Look at Great Britain. Look at Australia. Look at Nazi Germany. Look at history and ask yourself. Could it be happening right under our nose?

I don't know... Obama says... Judge me by who I associate myself with.

Is he kidding us? Acorn, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Van Jones, Rahm Emmanual, David Axelrod, Cass Sunstein and dozens more!

Anyway. If this post is out of line... The mods should delete it.

But I think America is on a precipice! Our Founding Fathers said: The price of freedom is ever vigilance! Is that just a punch line?

I might not have understood it when I joined the Marine Corps.... But I understood it at the time of my separation. And my oath did not end when I separated from the armed forces either.
 

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Bark'n,

As usual, you have a grasp of the situation that is hard to top. :hand10:

:congrats:

Biker
 

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I'm not going to say this won't happen. But, I'll reserve my concerns until after the Government health care plan starts doing away with smoking, alcohol, fast food and all the other things we have that are bad for our health or cause premature death.

I'm not 100% sure, but I do know people who are on Medicare who smoke, drink, and consume fast food, yet still receive their government benefits.

When/if we get a Gov. run health program, and it starts banning things that are responsible for causing injuries or deaths in far far greater numbers then firearms do . Then, I'll jump on the guns and health care band wagon.
 

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Boy, don't get me started on this one... I could speak on this in depth for hours.

What I will say is when people attempt to compare what this present administration is attempting to accomplish, to the Nazi Party, there is a lot of historical truth to that.

And before anything can be explained in rational terms based on historical fact, the far left liberal attack dogs following the script laid out in Saul Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals" immediately start to shout you down, not allow a word of fact in edgewise. They immediate tell everyone you are trying to compare Obama to Adolph Hitler. Typical Left Wing Radical Smear Tactics! As soon as they hear the word Nazi, they attempt to inflame everyone by calling you a racist and refer to the genocide Hitler committed against the Jews and tell everyone that is the comparison we attempt to make with Obama.

That is absurd, and they know it! But they are afraid of facts! They are always afraid of facts.

When comparing the Nazi's to what people see happening in this country, it is based on facts which can not be disputed! Let me explain.

First, the word Nazi is taken from the German word National Socialists and refers to the political party National Socialist German Workers Party. It was comprised of elements of both left and right wing politics and considered by political scholars to be Fascism! Remember, Socialism is where the Government owns all the Corporations, and Fascism is where Government allows ownership of business to remain in the private sector, but the Government calls all the shots and tells them what to do. They comply If they want to remain out of prison, or didn't want to get shot.

First Nazi Germany nationalized the banking industry, then they nationalized the automobile industry, followed by nationalizing health care. It was only after that was accomplished that Hitler came after the guns. And if I recall correctly, at least a good portion of the gun confiscation was done in the name of safety, and as a matter of public health. Now Hitler was quite insane and wasn't until later years when the genocide started and that aspect is not what is being compared! However, the comparison of what Hitler and the Nazi party did in the early 1930's to gain control of the people, is exactly like what is happening here in the USA, except of course, no one is being shot.

Now when Germany took over the banks, the auto industry and health care, it was left in the private sector. But the Government was in fact the ones running it.

Now this is all recorded in history which is really undisputed. Except for when the far left wing radical "community organizers," following Alinsky's playbook, "Rules For Radicals," start to shout you down, and attack you calling us racists and right wing kooks and attempt to get the masses to look in the other direction.

Now, what has happened since January 2009? We have bailed out the banks... Not all of them, but most of the major players and essentially made a big leap towards completely nationalizing them. Without any legitimate authority from the Constitution, Congress or otherwise, Obama fired the CEO of General Motors, a "private corporation" and replaced him with one of his left wing radical stooges and we bailed out most of the auto industry, again essentially nationalizing it. Oh, the auto industry and the banking industry, is still technically in the hands of the private sector... But is there any doubt as to who is calling the shots?

What's next? Nationalizing Health Care of course! We are seeing that play out right before our very eyes. And make no mistake about it. It has nothing to do with health care! Or, providing insurance to those who don't have it. It is about power and control. It is a way to circumvent the Constitution in order to have as much government control over every individual citizen's life as possible, under the guise of health care. Everything they tell us to do, will be for the good of all and they have the right to do it because they are paying the bill for everyone's health care. This is what all the hoopla and outrage over the "single payer" government coverage is about. This was all supposed to be a done deal secretly before Congress had the August break. But people caught on and actually started to read the 1000 page House Bill on Health Care presented on the internet.

But rest assured... If all this passes... Do not think for a minute that they can't come in and try to ban guns in the name of Public Health!

They have already been laying the ground work for more than a decade with getting the doctors in line as with the American Academy of Pediatrics posting a bogus study about guns in the home are 40% more likely to kill or injure you than you actually using your gun to thwart a crime. And they, along with other medical groups as well as people in the Government have been saying that guns are a health care epidemic which use up billions of our health care dollars.

So, is it far fetched to think that this health care initiative can be a road to banning guns?

I don't know... You tell me!

Who the hell want's to believe this? It's pretty hard to swallow for most American's... Why? Because, like everyone always says... This is America! It won't happen here!

Well, look at Canada. Look at Great Britain. Look at Australia. Look at Nazi Germany. Look at history and ask yourself. Could it be happening right under our nose?

I don't know... Obama says... Judge me by who I associate myself with.

Is he kidding us? Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Van Jones, Rahm Emmanual, David Axelrod, Cass Sunstein and dozens more!

Anyway. If this post is out of line... The mods should delete it.

But I think America is on a precipice! Our Founding Fathers said: The price of freedom is ever vigilance! Is that just a punch line?

I might not have understood it when I joined the Marine Corps.... But I understood it at the time of my separation. And my oath did not end when I separated from the armed forces either.
:congrats:, as usual, very well said!!!
 

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I'm not going to say this won't happen. But, I'll reserve my concerns until after the Government health care plan starts doing away with smoking, alcohol, fast food and all the other things we have that are bad for our health or cause premature death.

I'm not 100% sure, but I do know people who are on Medicare who smoke, drink, and consume fast food, yet still receive their government benefits.

When/if we get a Gov. run health program, and it starts banning things that are responsible for causing injuries or deaths in far far greater numbers then firearms do . Then, I'll jump on the guns and health care band wagon.
I think I will start locking my doors after everything is stolen.:confused: little late don't you think?
 

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I'm not going to say this won't happen. But, I'll reserve my concerns until after the Government health care plan starts doing away with smoking, alcohol, fast food and all the other things we have that are bad for our health or cause premature death.
Some local governments have already banned things like transfats (sp?), so... :confused:

:22a: And while I don't smoke, have you seen the price on tobacco products? Most of that is taxes.
 

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Let's get the facts straight.........

I think the connection of health care and gun rights is a cynical way to scare gun owners into opposing any form of health care reform. The whole idea that this would eliminate gun rights, health care choice, or any of the things that are being said about it is absolute nonsense.

I'm opposed to Obama's views on guns, but we're all served very badly when we follow the herd and allow ourselves to be manipulated. Remember that it was Reagan who was in office when machine guns were restricted, and President Bush famously said that he'd sign a new assault weapon ban if it came across his desk. Republican leaders are interested in gun owners as weapons against democrats, not because they have the slightest bit of respect for gun rights. They'll cheerfully use our votes and then go against us in congress because they know most of us will never vote democrat anyway.

In summary: this is a manufactured scare, not a genuine problem.
Actually machine guns were restricted in 1934 under the Roosevelt administration which was democratic. The Firearms Owners Protection Act which you refer to, was signed by President Reagan as it contained sweeping pro-gun changes. It's the reason you can buy ammunition by mail order and long guns in virtually every state. It reined in the BATF. It eliminated ammunition record sales and much more. The amendment to freeze machine guns was rammed through by Tip O'Neill, another democrat, by a questionable voice vote and was not part of the original legislation.
Regarding the comment by president George W. Bush. This was nothing more than a joke, as he knew like most people did, that the AWB was dead as long as the Republicans controlled Congress.
I think the fact that president Bush signed into law bills which allow retired LEO's to CC nationwide and laws protecting the firearms industry, appointed the most pro-gun US Attorney General in a century John Ashcroft, whose administrations official stand was the 2A was an individual right, and who nominated justices Roberts and Alito who are both pro 2A, and then signed every piece of pro-gun legislation passed by the Republican controlled Congress speaks volumes for George W. Bush.
If you trust your health care, guns or anything else to the "total government control of everything" democrats, I'd say you're in for trouble. I just hope they run health care better than they ran cash for clunkers, social security, national defense, oh yeah and gun control.
By the way, the 1968 Gun Control Act was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson. Guess which party he belonged to?
 

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Bark'n is on top of it!

As usual, Bark'n is spot on.

We all know what we can do about it. Call, write, email or whatever YOUR reps in Congress and YOUR senators. Vote for people who support our 2A rights.

There are several candidates running in primaries across the country trying to unseat incumbents. There is one candidate here in Texas running for the vacated Senate seat. SUPPORT THEM! There is a loose coalition of former military men that can make a difference, IF they get elected. Get active! The consequences if we don't will not be pleasant.

Scott O'Grady- former Air Force pilot shot down over Bosnia- formerly on the board of directors for the NRA- running for Senator -Texas

Sam Finley- former Marine- running for US Congress, District 12- Texas

There are also people running in OK, AZ, CA that I am aware of trying to defeat the incumbents that got us in this mess. These guys can get us out of it.

Soap box, ballot box, jury box, ammo box....in that order.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
We all know what we can do about it. Call, write, email or whatever YOUR reps in Congress and YOUR senators. Vote for people who support our 2A rights.
This is exactly why I started this thread. President Obama said to us last night... I'm going for it! It's on, people! More than half of you don't want nationalized health care, but I'm going for it anyway! We can derail this eventual threat to our 2A rights... today! If we are willing to speak up to our elected reps, we can stop this in its tracks.

I have read previous posts saying they will wait until later, after the federal government has made nationalized health care into law and have banned trans fats, tobacco use, etc. Honestly, fellas, that is just shortsighted. No offense intended but trying to stop the change then will just be futile. :aargh4:

Consider what a previous post said about the Gun Control Act in the 60s. If we had stopped a bill like that from being passed, we may actually have more rights than we do now. The time to act is NOW. Please contact your rep in the federal government and tell them you fear the intrusion into your civil rights if we get nationalized health care!
 

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Thanks to McPatrickClan for starting this thread. Bark'n has hit the nail on the head. Bark'n hope you don't mind but I copied your remarks for my own information. Thanks to both of you! :congrats: :congrats:
 

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O P and Bark'N. Both very well said, IMO. Both an accurate analysis of what is going on. Dayum, wish I could write that well.
oldogy
 

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Bark'n, that was beautifully put. You nailed right on the head.

Stop and look back since January, it's amazing as to what has taken place. Quadrupling the debt in just months?

I think there is no end to what this lunitic can do in just 1 years much less 4 years!!
 

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AMEN, BARK'N......

And even though Rep. Wilson will get excoriated for telling the truth, perhaps that is exactly what we need right now - the truth.....
 

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Bark'n,

As usual, you have a grasp of the situation that is hard to top. :hand10:

:congrats:

Biker
+1 Agreed. well stated and thought provoking. I am not opposed to reforming our health care system, however, I completely disagree with the course the current efforts are taking. I think we make tort reform, openning up the state borders to allow us to buy insurance from anywhere we wish, and have a national discussion of a co-op system similar to that used in Washington State as a means to reducing costs and possibly insuring those who have trouble affording it.
 
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