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Here's a very interesting take on the distances for civilians of a "typical gunfight."

 

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Although it took a while to get to the point, I very much enjoyed and agree with this vid. In my advanced course, which I not so cleverly call "Fright Night For Real", I spend the vast majority of my training time with student at the three to five yard line, both static and dynamic. I firmly believe that this is by far the most probable scenario the student may actually face on the street, and given limited time and resources, this is the best use of the students' time.
 

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Although it took a while to get to the point, I very much enjoyed and agree with this vid. In my advanced course, which I not so cleverly call "Fright Night For Real", I spend the vast majority of my training time with student at the three to five yard line, both static and dynamic. I firmly believe that this is by far the most probable scenario the student may actually face on the street, and given limited time and resources, this is the best use of the students' time.
Agree 100%
 

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I saw this last night. I spend most of my time and energy at 3 to 10 but, I like to spend a small amount of time at 25 yards. Kind of a personal challenge to see what I can do with my carry guns.
i really enjoy shooting at 25 yards because i don't hit any paper so i can use the target over and over again. cuts down on costs
 

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I do 25 yards for a challenge, then some point shooting at 10, 7 and 5 yards.

Unfortunately all my practice is now indoors, so I don't have an opportunity to practice shooting and moving.
 

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A well rounded defensive Carry practitioner should be able to make hits on demand consistently from a wide variety of distances, and with the understanding that it is a time and distance equation.
Obviously, the closer contact ranges will leave less time to resolve the issue.

The trick, in my opinion is finding a suitable weapon AND carry method, that allows the highest percentage of success to accomplish this task with a reasonable hit ability and time frame.

From 3-5 yards, from whatever the go signal is, from the first shot fired, I strive for under a second for the first shot.
I have found the snub from the pocket to be the quickest solution at 3 yards for a face shot in as quick as .48 seconds, but going back to just 2 yards farther, my hit probability at that speed diminishes to a point where I go for a body shot.

However, while doing these drills from AIWB with G26, I am slower, usually in the .90 second range from 3 yards for a face shot, my accuracy is still there all the way back to 7 yards with very little variation in the time it takes me to do it, usually on average 1.40, but faster if I go for the body.

I spent the day with a red dot equipped gun, and at 7 yards or closer, found no advantage for myself until I began to go farther back, but the difference I experienced was not enough to make me desire the investment in the gun and sight at that time.

My guess is, that someone familiar with threat focused shooting or flash sight picture, would desire the advantages of the red dot for the more precise and quicker shooting it offers at extended ranges that are out of the norm for what would be considered average street encounters, because, they can still make the hits from 7 yards and in anyway.
 

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A well rounded defensive Carry practitioner should be able to make hits on demand consistently from a wide variety of distances, and with the understanding that it is a time and distance equation.
Obviously, the closer contact ranges will leave less time to resolve the issue.

The trick, in my opinion is finding a suitable weapon AND carry method, that allows the highest percentage of success to accomplish this task with a reasonable hit ability and time frame.

From 3-5 yards, from whatever the go signal is, from the first shot fired, I strive for under a second for the first shot.
I have found the snub from the pocket to be the quickest solution at 3 yards for a face shot in as quick as .48 seconds, but going back to just 2 yards farther, my hit probability at that speed diminishes to a point where I go for a body shot.

However, while doing these drills from AIWB with G26, I am slower, usually in the .90 second range from 3 yards for a face shot, my accuracy is still there all the way back to 7 yards with very little variation in the time it takes me to do it, usually on average 1.40, but faster if I go for the body.

I spent the day with a red dot equipped gun, and at 7 yards or closer, found no advantage for myself until I began to go farther back, but the difference I experienced was not enough to make me desire the investment in the gun and sight at that time.

My guess is, that someone familiar with threat focused shooting or flash sight picture, would desire the advantages of the red dot for the more precise and quicker shooting it offers at extended ranges that are out of the norm for what would be considered average street encounters, because, they can still make the hits from 7 yards and in anyway.
Your times and distances are, IMO good goals to strive for.
 

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Civilian attacks are up close and personally. Especially if the perp doesn't have a firearm.

I shoot a variety of distances in practice but spend most of my time these days inside the 3 yard range. Because that is the most likely distance for a problem. Spend a fair amount of time on instinctive shooting also. Contact shots are hard to practice at the range (range rules).
 

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Civilian attacks are up close and personally. Especially if the perp doesn't have a firearm.

I shoot a variety of distances in practice but spend most of my time these days inside the 3 yard range. Because that is the most likely distance for a problem. Spend a fair amount of time on instinctive shooting also. Contact shots are hard to practice at the range (range rules).
One of the stages in the LEO qualifying I did was arms length. You had to touch the target to start. You had to shoot from retention just clearing holster at that distance and you can feel the shock wave from the blast. You still had to make scoring hits.
I still do this from time to time only I actually contact the target with the muzzle and push away while firing. It gives you a different perspective for sure.
 

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averages are just that. Prepare for the worst. Learn threat focused and have a solid foundation of the fundamentals.
Here's one of my concerns, which has also been expressed by Grant Cunningham: Longer shots may not be the worst case. The worst case, as far as one's life being threatened, may be contact distance. It may also be the most likely case for a lot of people. Of all the shooting courses I've taken, only one dealt with that at all.

One of the really key aspects of that situation is that it may be a mistake even going for the gun initially. You may have some H2H work to do before pulling the gun makes sense. And once you pull it, a defender definitely doesn't want to do the whole "low ready, push out" thing. A defender might want to get a shot into some part of the attackers body any way they can, without shooting themselves, which has happened, even to LEOs.

I have gotten into Brazilian Ju-Jitsu lately and I think about how this would work if you are rolling on the ground with someone. It is a whole other ballgame.
 

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Here's one of my concerns, which has also been expressed by Grant Cunningham: Longer shots may not be the worst case. The worst case, as far as one's life being threatened, may be contact distance. It may also be the most likely case for a lot of people. Of all the shooting courses I've taken, only one dealt with that at all.

One of the really key aspects of that situation is that it may be a mistake even going for the gun initially. You may have some H2H work to do before pulling the gun makes sense. And once you pull it, a defender definitely doesn't want to do the whole "low ready, push out" thing. A defender might want to get a shot into some part of the attackers body any way they can, without shooting themselves, which has happened, even to LEOs.

I have gotten into Brazilian Ju-Jitsu lately and I think about how this would work if you are rolling on the ground with someone. It is a whole other ballgame.
Absolutely. Too many people have the hammer/nail syndrome.
 

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Here's one of my concerns, which has also been expressed by Grant Cunningham: Longer shots may not be the worst case. The worst case, as far as one's life being threatened, may be contact distance. It may also be the most likely case for a lot of people. Of all the shooting courses I've taken, only one dealt with that at all.

One of the really key aspects of that situation is that it may be a mistake even going for the gun initially. You may have some H2H work to do before pulling the gun makes sense. And once you pull it, a defender definitely doesn't want to do the whole "low ready, push out" thing. A defender might want to get a shot into some part of the attackers body any way they can, without shooting themselves, which has happened, even to LEOs.

I have gotten into Brazilian Ju-Jitsu lately and I think about how this would work if you are rolling on the ground with someone. It is a whole other ballgame.
Several instructors/schools I have trained with offer extreme close quarters instruction: Greg Ellifritz, Tactical Defense Institute, Dave Spaulding and Robin Brown. Greg and TDI also offer ground-fighting/personnel control training.
 

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Absolutely. Too many people have the hammer/nail syndrome.
To join in both JMF and Bad Bob... You guys bring up some good points for sure (you usually do anyway). But I digress.. Anyway...

Point 1.. Learning hand to hand... Unfortunately for many of us, age or disability prevents any sort of physical altercation or defense. I wonder if we took a poll of just members here and many others who have a carry license, what their age is. I know from my own personal side, I would lose every time in a hand to hand matchup. Oh, a few years of Kung Fu (Yes, the very same that David Carridine used) about 35 years ago taught me a few quick disabling moves. But lord, I'd be out of commission after one leg sweep... LOL....

Point 2. Going for your gun initially... And this is one that I've given a lot of thought to. And I'm not to sure I still have the answer yet. Appendix vs 5 O'clock carry.... That argument is probably as old, long and heated at 9mm vs 45acp. No right, no wrong answer. Just preference I suppose... For me personally, having developed a tool shed over the boys as I've grown older Appendix carry just isn't for me, And I'm more in the keep things hidden away camp anyway.. I've often thought about what would my most likely scenario be in a SD situation. I fell that appendix draw is faster and most likely less problems cleaning kydex than 5 o'clock, but I also feel that stealth in many situations would be better... Again, a question I've yet to answer for myself.....

To summarize, as many intimate, work to your abilities and / or deficiencies to be the best you can.
 

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Although it took a while to get to the point, I very much enjoyed and agree with this vid. In my advanced course, which I not so cleverly call "Fright Night For Real", I spend the vast majority of my training time with student at the three to five yard line, both static and dynamic. I firmly believe that this is by far the most probable scenario the student may actually face on the street, and given limited time and resources, this is the best use of the students' time.
I suppose that this is why I don't find a .357 snub nose to be a poor choice. At contact distance to 5 yards, I don't think that I would have much problem putting an entire cylinder into the target. So I'm not going to be to concerned if I can't shoot 2" groups at 25 yards.
 
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