[Euclidean]

I've been intrigued with the very idea of the Scout Rifle ever since I first heard about it. At first I thought it was a novelty but the more I come to consider it, it just makes a heck of a lot of sense.

The trouble is if you don't have $2500 laying around it's very hard to find a rifle that meets the requirments. It's even harder to find one that can take the forward mounted optic.

On the flip side we have all these home brewed things popping up. I have a well worn copy of The Poor Man's Scout Rifle by Bob Cashner. I really have to give Cashner a lot of credit for his ingenuity but I honestly think the scope of some of his modifications are beyond me. For one thing I don't have the necessary tools to fabricate mounts like he does, not to mention me drilling on a gun is a recipe for disaster!

The book is useful for seeing the possibilities though. I especially found the parts about accessories, slings, ammunition, and optics very informative.

Is there something in between? Why isn't there? I realize that cost was never a part of the Scout formula and that you get what you pay for, but there must be something between a milsurp rifle that's been homebrewed up to snuff and an expensive Steyr. Ruger broke my heart with that rifle of theirs. I thought "Yes! This is the answer! Here is a quality scout rifle that's ready out of the box at a realistic price!" But it has no iron sights... ugh damn you Ruger for not putting a little piece of metal on there.

 

[Bud White]

Winchester is making one in a lever gun configuration now .. 30-30 and 44 mag saw ad in a gun rag today ..

i still dont see the pont for this kind of rifle and still dont like they way they shoot .. Also caliber selection doesnt thrill me but to each his own

 

[P95Carry]

Never really sure just what attributes collectively make up a ''scout rifle'' - relatively light, relaible, and robust would I think be some of the things I'd look for, plus excellent sighting - my choice despite old eyes would be ghost ring.

 

[Euclidean]

Cooper really formalized the concept describing it as "A conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in the vital area of a target."

This is the formal criteria:

Weighs no more than 3 kilos/ 6.5 pounds
No longer than 1 meter or 39.4 inches in length
Extended eye relief optic, no more than 3X ideally
.308 caliber (or ballistic equivalent but ideally .308)
Back up aperture or ghost ring sights
Manually operated turn bolt action
Detachable box magazine
Magazine cut off to allow single loading
Bipod (preferably built in)
Sling (a real sling)

The dang thing is if you actually designed a rifle around this you should be able to do it for less than $1000. Most "Scout" rifles people make violate one of the criterion. Sometimes this is deliberate as some people don't like bipods for example. But most of the time it's because very few make a rifle such as this.

This rifle lends itself to quick target acquisition and with practice you can hit targets readily at 300 and 400 yard distances, which are fairly normal hunting ranges where I come from. Unlike a regular rifle and optic system, you don't block out your terrain. The setup also lends itself to using both eyes.

Bud could you give me a link? I'd be interested in seeing exactly what it is you are talking about. I think I know what it is but am not sure.

 

[Bud White]

ill search there site to see if its listed yet .

 

[CombatEffective]

They are very easy to make from a levergun.

 

[Bud White]

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=119&cat=003C

 

[Euclidean]

Oh I've seen that. Thanks Bud. You can do the same thing with a Marlin by ordering a special mount from XS sights.

See the problem is, as much as I love lever actions, they can only be pale imitations as they violate several criteria. Their very construction demands it.

Don't get me wrong I love leverguns to death but they're a different tool for a different situation.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Euc - got the picture much better.

 

[Bud White]

yeah but as i have said i see no point in a scout rifle i would get the lever before something like the Styer scout.

Ya want a 308 fine use a semi auto or a bolt gun with the scope mounted in the proper position

 

[Euclidean]

I must disagree with you Bud. I think this is a better overall setup for the general purpose do it all rifle it's supposed to be. The thing I see about it is that the scout setup is rendundant where it's vulnerable. When something fails, there's a backup.

That's not to say it's perfect for everyone. It's just another tool. I'm just curious why the concept isn't more commercially viable.

And thing is Bud you can still use the thinking behind it if one of the criteria just does not seem acceptable to you. There's an awful lot of pseudo scouts out there.

If nothing else Bud consider what if you had an AR15 in .308 that met all the Scout criteria except for being a bolt action. Imagine the optic as being a holosight. The Scout concept is quite sound.

 

[Bud White]

This is another one of those to Each there own but before you plunk down your hard earned $$$$'s Make sure you can find one to shoot i thought the Styer would be the cats meow when they brought it out and bought into cooper said it was good it should be ..


Shooting it changed my mind big time

 

[OD*]

Col. Cooper is a fan of the levergun in the scout format.

 

[Euclidean]

Actually I'm pretty convinced there's nothing the Colonel doesn't like.

 

[OD*]

Actually, there's quite a bit.

 

[Euclidean]

I dunno... he says he doesn't like 9mm pistols and then he praised one of the CZ platforms built around 9mm.

He lays out this strict criteria for a scout rifle and then says something else is an acceptable substitute.

The thing is, the man has done so much and is probably so skilled, he's probably gotten to the point where he can pick up the biggest piece of junk gun in existence and hit a clay with it on the first shot. He lives on Gunsite for Pete's sake.

I've always thought that the perfect shooter would have no preferences or biases other than for quality when it came to selecting hardware.

 

[OD*]

He praises the platform, not the projectile.

He has firm opinions, but is open to other well thought out ideas also. He did not invent the scout rifle concept and freely acknowledges that fact.

There is no perfect shooter, I've seen him miss with his scout rifle on American Shooter. Even at 85 years old, I'd hate to be on his bad side.

First Scout Rifle Conference
http://pw2.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutconference.html

 

[Euclidean]

Good point OD. Cooper just formalized it and set out the criteria with an objective list. He does have a good way of stating things and qualifying them concisely.

 

[OD*]

Euc,

I hope I didn't come across as being argumentative towards you, if so, it was unintended amigo. I've been a Cooper fan for some time and enjoy a good conversation about the Colonel. :wink:

 

[Euclidean]

Not at all OD. I just thought of it as you setting the record straight. I don't pretend to know everything. That's why I like this site so much. We don't have any resident know it alls save for the occassional presence of a troll. :tongue: