[justherenow]

This is a hypothetical thing, for the most part.

To preface, my father has a rental property that also serves as his brothers home. Half of the property is rented, to at this time a good tenant. The other half (its a duplex) is where my uncle lives, and by contract, can live rent free until he dies (Long story, I wont go into the details), essentially my dad supports my uncle as well.

There are alot of undesirables that comes in and out of my uncles, all either drunks or on drugs, and my dad, who is going to be 64 has to run them out on a weekly basis, sometimes with police assistance. For the most part, these guys are just loud but leave, but my dad keeps making the statement that he feels one of these days he will be stabbed or attacked dealing with these issues, and I try to go with him whenever I can to be of assistance. Also let it be known that due to a shoulder injury, my fathers left are is practically useless

So onto the scenario.

Say we are at the apartment, and we have to run out one of the undesirables, but this guy is just going crazy, the police are called and could be minutes away. The guy grabs a weapon, and starts for us (for sake of discussion, a knife or a baseball bat) . Knowing that the weapon could be used as a deadly device, and we are unable to get out of the place I draw and he drops the weapon, at which point, he keeps coming towards us. He is ordered several times to stop but refuses and advances farther, say within 10 feet or so. What do you do? The fear is that maybe this subject maybe advancing in an attempt to disarm and use your weapon for his gain.

For another part of the discussion, say he is unarmed but comes as a threat. He is getting loud and maybe violent, at what point would it be justified in pulling a weapon?

In both of these we have to assume that my father and myself are the only to capable of defending anyone, my uncle is only 100lbs and frail, both my father and I are both 5'8"-5'9", both around 230.

In Ohio, self defense is allowable to defend yourself or another as long as the other would have had the right to defend themselves in the first place. We also have the castle doctrine, but in this case that would be null since that is not our residence.

 

[justherenow]

All points well taken. Thats the great thing about this site, getting all perspectives. I need to look into some less than lethal types of things to work with.

 

[justherenow]

In this case, the guys all know that my uncle has no actual say in who can come in. Basically, they can visit, but they try to move in. Thats when we have to get them out. The guy they are having issues with, well, lets say he knows he is unwelcome to move in, yet everytime he gets out of jail, he moves right in.

That is the case now, the guy is there, we are doing the legal steps to get him out. My dad makes daily visits there, he checks on the house, gives my uncle an "allowance" every day and such. My uncle does not work, has no income, he is alcohol dependent and is not really able to stand up for himself. This same guy that we are working on getting out now, has beat the crap out of my uncle in the past.

 

[justherenow]

Oh let me stress, I am in no way in power to do anything at this house, I just ride along to be a witness and to be there. I do not go with any purpose other than to ride along, but if the SHTF, I will protect my father if needed.

We almost always use the police to get these guys out of there, and it normally works.

 

[justherenow]

We can only issue trespass warnings, but he has to be there when the police is there, and he normally runs before they arrive (this one specific that we are having issues with now). My dad is thinking of going to his P.O. and advising him that the guy is not wanted there and see if they can help.

I keep using the word "we" because I am giving my dad as much info as possible. In the case of CHL, my dad is not and will not get a license even though he is able to. He is not an anti, but he does not feel the need. He knows I have a CHL, and when or if I am carrying, he has no clue.

 

[justherenow]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Normally when we go, we do not know if anyone is there or who will be there at any given time. The trip is made at random daily, basically due to having a life and other things to do, so calling the police is not always an option. Discussed getting a RO, but they wont issue one due to no criminal charges. My uncle refused to prosecute for the assault that happened, the subject is on probation for other reasons.

I am going to look at less than lethal next payday, either OC or a civilian model of the Taser.

 

[justherenow]

A few details I did not mention but will now, for the discussion, which I find rather informative and thank all contributors.

The house my uncle lives in, is a duplex, as stated. My great aunt bought it for 2 of my uncles who she had always adored, and it was put into a trust. One of my uncles has since passed on, and the other one still lives there. My dad use to "manage" the property, as in, he would take care of all the details for my aunt. The trustee that over saw the place is nearly 85 and wanted to give up the trustee ship, and to do so, the house had to be placed into someones name. The terms of getting the house are that my uncle has to live there until he dies, no if's ands or buts about it.

The one side that is rented is actually to my sisters ex-husband who also keeps an eye on things, he does all the maint. work to the place and also pays.

The side my uncle is in has four bedrooms, so in order to get extra money coming in, to pay the bills (which my dad does out of his own pocket when there is no money coming in), he rents rooms. Usually he gets decent people moving in, but they dont stay long, and the freeloaders come back every time a room opens up.

Right now we are in the process of getting a trespass order against this scumbag that does not want to leave. The only way we have found, by the information from the local LEO's is that we have to order him away and warn him in the presence of an officer, so that there is actual proof he has been warned. Everytime we call to have an officer come out, the guy leaves before they arrive.

None of us wants to have to go hands on with anyone, none of us wants to use force, we just want it peaceful.

As for installing monitoring equipment, its not something that would be effective, they would steal the cameras and sell them. The scum bags already stole all the copper wire out of the garage and sold it for beer.

My dad wants to get out of it, and has consulted an attorney, but the only way is to find someone else to take it over, and you tell me how many people would under these terms. The house cannot be put into my uncles name for 2 reasons: 1. He does not have the mental capacity to deal with things (which is why my dad has guardianship or power of attorney, I am not sure which) and 2. My uncle owns a huge debt to the sheriff from when he was in jail, anything he owns, they will take. He had suffered a massive head injury while in jail for not getting dog tags, and the sheriff is saying they are not responsible, even though the charges were dismissed.