[QKShooter]

An Interesting & Wothwhile EASY READ on the Combat Shotgun for home defense. One maybe 2 things I don't totally agree with but, quite informative.

Click HERE For WorthWhile Reading

 

[Bud White]

good read as you said there are a couple things i dont agree with

 

[FortyFive]

Nice picture, don't think the pistol grip is legal in CA(if it is considered a pistol grip). Speaking from my home of defense we should practice more with our shotgun. Dam it hurts sometime, my arm gets sore. :smile:

 

[Bud White]

Didnt see the pic the first tiem that would be a NFA shot gun wouldnt it ?

 

[CombatEffective]

Interesting read. The shotgun is a wonderful tool if the person knows how to use it. I attended a 40 hour police shotgun instructor course last year and became fairly proficient with the combat shotgun. I have an old 870P police trade in that I bought for $179. It worked great until I added a Wilson Combat 2 round extension to it. The provided spring is a bit strong. Currently, it has a bead on a post, but I would like ghost rings for it. I had mine threaded with chokes and have it choked with a modified tube. At 25 yards with Remington Reduced Recoil 8 pellet 00 buck I get very tight groups at 25 yards.

At some point I'm going to set up a 20ga shottie see how well it will perform.

 

[QKShooter]

Bud ~ CombatEffective

"Didnt see the pic the first tiem that would be a NFA shot gun wouldnt it?"
Yep, I added the pic. as an afterthought since I like threads with at least one photo.

CombatEffective.
Really, I think the 870 shown in the photos is maybe a bit excessively "cropped" - I think a standard shotty w/ a shorter barrel is a useful tool.
Maybe w/ a high quality folding stock to facilitate storage.

 

[CombatEffective]

QK,

I HATE folding and pistol grip only stocks. The one in the abov pic is probably a door buster of some sort. I have an 18" barrel on mine. We have some 14" models in the department inventory.

 

[RSSZ]

I've been wanting to get a entry kit bbl (14") for my Benelli M1 Super 90. It is an NFA add on and at this point I'm not sure that I want to be in the Govt's sights for one bbl. ------- Something to ponder is,....will you be shooting your weapon shouldered or from the hip? Had a instructor that used to say,"PISTOL GRIP-FROM THE HIP". To me a shotgun with a pistol grip is designed to be fired unshouldered.--------

 

[Euclidean]

Here's my beef with a pistol grip on a defensive shotgun or even a shotgun which might be pressed into a defensive role.

For most users, a pistol grip changes the position of the firing hand, which can make the shotgun's safety inaccessible. Case in point: the Mossberg 500's elegant safety design. I've yet to encounter a shotgun pistol grip that facilitates the comfortable use of the safety on at least this particular shotgun.

This is normally countered with the suggestion one should simply store the shotgun with the safety off and an empty chamber. The reason why is almost universally:

"The sound of the round being chambered will scare the bad guy away..."

Oh Hollywood how I loathe thee.

So now we have a gun that's not ready for a fight because there's not a round in the chamber, the controls on the gun are inaccessible, and it's harder to use and control.

I can however see the use of a top or side folding stock with a pistol grip, so you can get compact storage. I can even see the point of a fixed pistol grip stock if you're used to shooting a military rifle. But the solo pistol grip is just something that I don't see as terribly useful beyond compact storage.

Perhaps such a grip on a 20 gauge would be prudent however. I'm so used to the 12 gauge I can't honestly say.

 

[Jim_Linch]

Euclidean,
I see your point about the safety, but I personally agree with the empty chamber and safety off. The gun is racked as it's picked up and is hardly any slower than flipping the safety off.

Yes, it gives away your position, but I figure most people coming into my house are going to be thieves that thought I was not home. Most thieves do not carry guns.

Home invasions are becoming more prevalent in my area but like the cowards they are, usually they pick old and/or defenseless targets. Hearing a shotty rack alerts them to the fact they have chosen wrongly.

Racking also gives a family member/friend (anyone have a key to your house?) a chance to identify themselves.

A shotgun racking DOES have an effect on the BG, just like my M6 does. I never would have bought one (M6) if I had not seen for myself how many BG's will stop messin around when a dot bounces on them.

I just got my first shotty for the home and will be using it in 3-gun also. The Copstock is a whole different animal than most pistol grips, and it works well in reducing recoil.

I suppose everyone will have their own tastes, just like the handguns they choose to carry, here's mine for now...

 

[CombatEffective]

The safety on most shotguns is simply a trigger safety and does not block the firing pin. If there is a round in the chamber and the gun should happen to fall over or strike a hard object it is possible that the round could fire. I store mine (and we carry ours this way in our cars) in the gunbox ready condition which is hammer down on an empty chamber so that the slide is free, the safety on, and the mag tube loaded full. If the shotty is taken from the rack/mount a round can be chambered as needed.

 

[OD*]

The perfect accessory for that shorty :wink:

 

[firefighter4884]

I could conceal that while skiiing....

or in my firegear (although THAt wouldn't be comfortable...)

 

[Euclidean]

I defer to Colonel Cooper.

All guns are always loaded and they should be because an unloaded gun is useless. A shotgun with an empty chamber is unloaded.

We've had many posts educating myself and others why it's a horrible idea to carry a pistol with a full magazine and an empty chamber. The same idea applies here.

If the shotgun is going into some kind of storage situation where immediate use for combat is not your primary concern, or you're about to climb over a fence or something, yes by all means clear the chamber.

I keep mine completely unloaded for the record, but my shotgun would only be pressed into service in an emergency. I would trust it for that but it's not set up for it.

 

[Rob72]

The only thing worse than a premature discharge, is no discharge.....(cough, cough) Read: when I kept a bedside SG, it was always "hot".

 

[CombatEffective]

OD,

I love that rig.

Euc,

More power to ya. I've trained so much with an 870 from the gunbox ready position that it is what is natural to me. Keep in mind that ours are riding around in vehicles a good bit, and the chance for a jolt or a bump that might set it off are higher. We also have to contend with putting them in and taking them out of vehicles. Prior to putting on the badge I kept mine with a loaded chamber, but I prefer the gunbox ready method. I train that way, and I keep all of my personal shotties that way as well.

 

[Jim_Linch]

What Combateffective said. We will have to agree to disagree, and even the Great Col. Cooper had unloaded guns.

 

[KC135]

My 870/1200 stays in cruiser ready--I do not have safety on.

Sorry, but I do not see a contradicton. If shotgun were 'first grab' perhaps chamber loaded, but it is not.

It is my safe room gun, and if I have time to take the step to get it, I have time to rack it.

 

[Euclidean]

I'm not saying there's not a good reason sometimes you might have to keep the thing unchambered and open. I realize the real world is not full of ideal situations. The police vehicle situation is one such situation.

My shotgun seems reasonably well made. I doubt very much it would fire if I dropped it much as I doubt my 686 would fire if I dropped it directly on its hammer. The "safety" on every gun I have is not a mechanical feature or a method of storage. It is my brain and my trigger finger, which does not touch the trigger unless I am ready and willing to fire.

I shall endeavor from now on to carry my XD40 Israeli style. After all if I have time to draw it I have time to rack it.

I apologize for the sarcasm, but that's the only way I felt I could make the point. If the shotgun is meant for immediate use, it should be ready for immediate use. If it is not meant for immediate use, such as my personal shotgun or the aforementioned specimen in the safe room, then I fully agree it need not be kept in such condition.

I will happily concede the point that if operating the shotgun a certain way has become so basic to you it's a reflex, then you should most definitely disregard anything I say and do it your way.

And perhaps I am incorrect in my thinking. I admit my shotgun is not my first love so to speak. I cut my teeth on rifles and to be honest that's where most of my long gun experience lies. I probably tend to treat it too much like a rifle.

 

[KC135]

I'm not saying there's not a good reason sometimes you might have to keep the thing unchambered and open. I realize the real world is not full of ideal situations. The police vehicle situation is one such situation.

My shotgun seems reasonably well made. I doubt very much it would fire if I dropped it much as I doubt my 686 would fire if I dropped it directly on its hammer. The "safety" on every gun I have is not a mechanical feature or a method of storage. It is my brain and my trigger finger, which does not touch the trigger unless I am ready and willing to fire.

I shall endeavor from now on to carry my XD40 Israeli style. After all if I have time to draw it I have time to rack it.

I apologize for the sarcasm, but that's the only way I felt I could make the point. If the shotgun is meant for immediate use, it should be ready for immediate use. If it is not meant for immediate use, such as my personal shotgun or the aforementioned specimen in the safe room, then I fully agree it need not be kept in such condition.

I will happily concede the point that if operating the shotgun a certain way has become so basic to you it's a reflex, then you should most definitely disregard anything I say and do it your way.

And perhaps I am incorrect in my thinking. I admit my shotgun is not my first love so to speak. I cut my teeth on rifles and to be honest that's where most of my long gun experience lies. I probably tend to treat it too much like a rifle.

Look, you carry, load, etc anyway you like. That is your decision, and I am not interested in trying to change it.

To me 'immedate action gun' means gun that is within reach with movement of just arm. I have such a gun in the bed. It is some sort of night sighted revolver/semi auto. Shotgun is about a step and a half from bed. Shotguns are not that comfortable a bedmate!!!

Just the opinion of one old fart