[mrshonts]

I actually just found out that the organization that I work for has a policy against carrying concealed weapons. It reads: Carrying Concealed Weapons: carrying concealed weapons on company property or concealing a weapon on company property (unless so approved in advance) will result in immediate termination.
When I was first hired on I did not know that this rule was even in the books but now that I know, what should I do? I could go to our state director and talk to her to see if she will allow it (which I do not think she would). Or, I could keep the gun in my car, or carry to work and go about my day like nothing happened. What is everyone’s opinion on this? I don't want to be fired but on the other hand I do want to protect myself if something were to happen.

FYI, my official title is Family and Youth Therapeutic Coordinator (FYTC). I talk with youth and their bio-logical parents as well as their foster parents. I also do a lot of driving to different schools, youths home, Department of Children’s Services office, Court, transporting youth as well as meeting the youth in my office.

 

[rwojcik]

Youth

Sounds like you're a Therapist or Social Worker. My wife does much of the same thing and meetings in questionable neighborhoods are the norm. I have tried to get her to consider carrying but like you, company policy (not to mention, personal choice) deters. Being witness to such acts as drug violence and domestic disputes can errupt behond your control, and often-times getting yourself caught in between. Unfortunatley there isn't a clear choice. Is my job worth my life? Hard one to answer. Short of hiring a personal bodyguard, there should be some safeguards in place. Find out if any exist and what company can do to ensure your safety. Sorry but cell phones and 911 doesn't cut it.

 

[LenS]

This is a tough decision that only you can make.

I don't know of any large company that doesn't have a "no weapons" policy at this point! My adage has always been "don't ask, don't tell", and I've always assumed the small risk that I could be fired. I make my assessments on risk potential of where I'm going, hassle factor of carrying, etc.

Be careful around schools as the laws in most/all states prohibit carry on school property and many prohibit it within cars on the property as well. You need to check your state laws, as this one could be a prosecutable crime.

 

[spacemanspiff]

sometimes there is a difference between obeying policy, and abiding by laws.

my employer has a 'no weapons' policy (at least until everyone agrees to the new improved employee handbook, which doesnt mention weapons at all!) but thats all it is: a policy. it is completely legal for me to carry at work. i just might get fired for it. well, actually, my boss knows i carry, and he doesnt care so i wouldnt get canned.

now, if my work was in places where weapons were illegal, thats a different story.

some may tell you their life is worth more than their job, or that its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6, but in all honesty, those who CCW do abide by the laws of the land.

 

[mrshonts]

I know that when I am in court and in the schools I will not carry but my only dilemma is if I should carry while I am in the office or when I am in these families’ homes. If I do leave it in my car I will have to get some sort of lock box since I will be transporting youth at times but if the gun is ever found in my car while I am at work I could be fired.
It's a tough choice that I still have not made up yet but all of your opinions are welcome!
FYI, I am a social worker at this time and I am also working on my masters degree so I will eventually become a therapist.

 

[mrshonts]

I'm a moron for not noticing this earlier. My company policy reads that I am not to carry while I am in the office or on company property so the only thing that I have to decide is if I should carry while I am in the office and not while I am on the road.
This rule says nothing in there about carrying unless your in the office!! WHOO HOO :banana:

 

[Fjolnirsson]

Well, as I posted in the previous thread related to this subject.
In that thread, located here:
To Carry, Or Not?, I stated:

Concealed is concealed, eaten by a mountain lion is eaten by a mountain lion.
My duty to family overrides my duty to my employer.

The same still stands.
No job is worth my daughter growing up daddyless. I will do what I have to to ensure that I return home come evening. Period.

 

[Bud White]

do you drive a company car or your own ... my company call the work van company property so they get me there tooo... Sorry i go by dont ask i woont tell

 

[mrshonts]

I drive my own car so I suppose that I could lock it up in there while I am at the office.

 

[dhomoney]

Thankfully for me my company doesn't have a written policy about weapons, so as long as I am in an area where I am coved by my permits then I carry.

 

[Betty]

If you choose to go against company policy, you do so at your own risk.

Since you say your job won't allow you to carry unless you're "pre-approved," hopefully they may actually allow you to carry, if you want to risk exposing yourself as a carry permit holder if they say No. I do believe some companies have these weapons policies as a knee-jerk reaction, thinking only about workplace offense and not defense, and not really realizing that no printed words in a manual would stop a madman from going on a shooting spree - they're just stopping decent folks from protecting themselves from the madman.

If you choose to discuss the matter with your employer, hopefully he/she will see that you are a calm, rational, highly decent person. You just want to protect yourself and your loved ones, not spray the office with bullets. Besides my dad, you're the most even-tempered person I know, and good grief, if I can't push your buttons, I don't know who can. :biggrin:

Since your job description means traveling with the kids and possibly going to schools, there's the issue of discreetly unholstering/reholstering while in the presence of kids. You may want to map a sample day to see how the disarming/rearming thing will work.

I know your glovebox doesn't lock, and it's not that hard breaking into a trunk. There's the GunVault Minivault that you can bolt to the inside of your trunk (or anywhere in your car) that can give you a keypad or keylock access to your weapon.

 

[LenS]

Carry in the office:
- Do clients ever come to the office?
- Have their ever been incidents of clients/co-workers going crazy ("postal") in the office? What is the likelihood of this happening (risk assessment)?
- What is the safety/security of cars parked on the property like or wherever you park? If cars are frequently stolen/vandalized/broken into, I'd be reluctant to leave a gun in a car (even if locked up).
- I would NOT assume that if a policy says "no guns unless authorized/permission granted" that they would ever actually grant permission. And once you "come out of the closet" you can't stuff the genie back in the bottle. If told no and you comply, they still may chose to shake you down to make sure you comply. Even one spent casing in the trunk or under a seat might be used to terminate you. NOT worth the chance! Only exception that I'd take to my statement here is if you knew that your boss CCW'd or was very pro-gun/RKBA.

Kids:
- I'd be VERY concerned with any possibility that any kid at any time could spot your gun, spot the safe bolted to the car floor, etc. and then say something that gets back to your employer. Even if the safe is empty, they can try to use it as "proof" that you sometimes carry a gun in the car when on business with the kids, etc.
- Kids can NOT keep a secret and they are eternally curious, so some of Betty's points here are "spot on" and deserve a lot of consideration.
- I say that you can NOT discreetly unholster with any kids around at any time!

Sorry that I don't have any answers for you in your circumstances as I understand them.

 

[rfurtkamp]

There are few good instances where I'll recommend off-body carry. In your case, I'd consider it if nothing else for ease of stashing that discrete daytimer in the trunk or something similar before entering the forbidden places on your list.

 

[viper_audio]

About two years ago, a friend of mine was fired at work for carrying in his car.

His car was stolen in the company parking lot one day, and he had to report his Kimber .45 ACP was in the glove box. When management heard of this, he was written up, and put on indefiniate probation. They waited 2 weeks until he made a minor mistake (coming in late), and used that excuse to fire him.

His car was actually rather crappy old car. So it's weird that it was stolen among the much newer cars in the lot. He only had a few close friends that knew he carried, so he doesn't believe it was an "inside job". Most likely dumb luck.

 

[The Tourist]

Mrshonts,

I have a day-planner that discretely carries a Colt .380 ACP and a spare mag.

If it makes your situation more tolerable, I will send it to you immediately.

 

[Prospector]

I'm not for routinely violating "policy", but as compared to your legal right to protect yourself, I would tend to pick and choose....sorry guys, but policymakers aren't always right. Viper brought up a good point about the guy getting fired...but, he made a fundamental mistake perhaps in letting those he worked with know that he carried. Nobody has anything to fear from a law-abiding individual (you). You have to decide, but if you choose to violate company policy, then be extremely discreet. I tend to think the odds of you actually needing a weapon are pretty remote and therefore, you are not likely to get "discovered" breaking company policy. I'm saying all this based on limited knowledge of your work environment, and the immediate surroundings.

My place of work also has policy against weapons in the workplace. But I work in an area that is extremely safe (that goes for the parking lot too). There are armed security personnel that patrol the parking lots here, so having to leave my weapon in the truck doesn't phase me the least, and I'm certainly not going to get mugged between the work doors and my truck door. My primary concern is getting safely from home to work and back again, given the occasion sidetrack to the store. And as others have said before, it is best to be armed and not need it than....you know the rest.

Let me be clear here....I don't subscribe to or condone breaking the "law". Company policy is not the "law" and in my humble opinion is open to a different interpretation with respect to my personal safety. :smile:

 

[Gideon]

Well, here's my two cents. I feel a man (or a woman), i.e., a person of chacter and integrity ought to be honest in all maters and respect others rights as much as they'd like their own to be respected. Having said that, jobs are contracts between a company and an individual. They offer a job with certain requirements, benefits, and salary. You consider their offer and if you choose to accept and they start paying, you have the legal requirements of a binding contract. Offer, acceptance and the exchange of consideration between competent parties. (no jokes on the competent part :biggrin: ). Since the company is the "author" of the contract they have some rights and some responsibilities. They can basically set the terms as author, i.e., no guns on the property. Irregardless of how any of us might feel about it, it's their right. Violate their right and all you're saying is that your rights are more important that their rights. I'll only agree with you on that point if they're doing something illegal or dangerous to you. Then you have the right to protect and defend. Short of that, you need to walk. If you accept their contract and work for them, then you are in effect giving them your word that you have accepted their terms. Now I'll probably get flamed and there might be some who'll get emotional and say their right to defend themselves usurps every other right out there and that it's a company, not an individual. Well, that argument is based on little more than emotional grandstanding. So if it comes, it comes, but the bottom line is, just like Betty's position on where she'll travel or not. If she can't carry legally she won't go there. We'd all agree she (we) should be able to carry anywhere but the truth is we can't. So, Betty "respects" the law that she might disagree with and I can respect her for it. So it's really about integrity. To pretend I didn't read something that I did in some way to defend myself if I ever got caught would be a lack of integrity. So, is my right to defend myself more important than integrity, keeping the laws and being an honest citizen? No, it's not or it all goes down the tubes a lot fastre than it may seem like it is right now. So, if you want to carry, get a job that accomodates your legal rights and desires but I'd had to see any of us tread on the rights of others (even corporations) and then try to stand their and defend our rights?

What made this country great is that we are willing to give up some rights in order that we all can have liberty.

Well, I'll get off my soap box, I just find it disturbing how easily some people in society will tromp on the rights of others and then seem so amazed that anyone would do so to them.

My company has a policy that there aren't to be any weapons on the property. I read it 3 years after starting work there. I went to the HR director and shared my concern. I didn't tell him about CCW (I don't tell anyone about that, ever) but mentioned that I often have guns with me so I can stop by the range to shoot or go hunting after work and mentioned that I was confident others did the same since hunting and shooting sports are so common around here. He said he understood and that wouldn't be a problem as long as they stayed in the car and I was discreet about it. I emailed him about it in order to have a document and I'm doing just that. I don't carry into work because I respect their rights and it IS thier right. To deny thier right in any way shape or form would be absolutely unfounded and unjustifiable. I have the choice to simply work somewhere else. I decided to keep the job.

Each of us must make our own choice but I hope all of us can see how this is really much more a matter of integrity and rights (mine and others) then some might see it.

The reality of 24/7 carry is that it will affect how you dress, where you go, where you work, and even (to some extend) your activities and conduct. Praise the Lord for Personal Liberty!

God Bless and Mr Shonts, if you're still reading, I'd love to hear what you think of that new K40 after you've had a chance to shoot it a bunch.

Gideon

 

[CLASS3NH]

I would say to go with the "don't ask, don't tell rule. I would also not consider locking your weapon in your vehicle while in the office. You may be held liable for it being "unsecured, and not under your control" should your vehicle be stolen, and the weapon used in the commission of a crime. Just a thought from an old dog here LOL...woof! :biggrin:

 

[tex45acp]

I am the Executive Director in my non-profit organization and I would, in my position never tell you to willfully ignore the companies policy on firearms but, if you properly carry concealed, no one should know that you are ignoring the companies policy of not carrying firearms.

JMHO

Yes I carry, no it is not written, most of my Board of Directors would probably strongly object......so it's a situation that I must be careful with in my office. 2 of my 7 employees are also CHL holders and 3 others are anti-gun people.

 

[Obiwan]

Concealed means CONCEALED.