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Discussion Starter #1
I know this has been covered to one extent or another but I think it bears repeating and is true in all states...not just Michigan.

The main thing I took from this is that if the officer asks for your weapon you should ask him to safely remove it as you should NOT be comfortable handing a loaded weapon to another person...if he insists then read the lawyers sugestions for meathods of doing this.

Taken from MCRGO - Frequently Asked Questions about Michigan Gun Laws


Q: I had a couple of questions I can't seem to get an answer to. First, my son who has his cpl was stopped by the police and he informed them he was carrying. The officer asked for his weapon and removed it from him, unloaded it, AND unloaded the magazine. After the stop (he was just a passenger), the officer gave hime the weapon an pile of ammo/magazine back to reload himself. I found this quite unnecessary and was really furious over this. I saw no reason for this. Secondly, I purchased a long gun at one of the gun shows and had to have a background check. I asked why and the vendor stated the at the new law says anyone with a cpl dated BEFORE 2005 did not have to go through the background check but mine, dated prior to 2005, had to do so. Is this correct? Doesn't seem right to me. If there is such a ruling, could you please direct me to it?
A: There is no standard way being taught to Michigan law enforcement officers on how to deal with CPL holders.

The Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards (MCOLES) has not yet developed uniform training standards for dealing with law-abiding citizens who are carrying during a traffic stop. This is what I recommend to my students.

It's a basic rule of firearm safety that we don't hand a loaded gun to another person. In dealing with a LEO, especially one not used to lawful citizens carrying, you do NOT want to hand him your gun. Having your gun in your hand is a dangerous situation for him, and for you (and especially for other officers arriving as you are handing it over). Allow the officer to remove it from you; it allows him the control he demands, and it is safer for everyone.

In fact, I recommend that if an officer instructs someone to hand the officer a loaded gun, one should offer to let the officer remove it. You don't want to create a scenario during a traffic stop, where the LEO tells you to hand over your pistol. His partner's watching from the passenger side, therefore he can't hear the instruction; the partner sees you pull your gun. The partner is going to stick his gun in your ear and could ruin your whole day.

If the LEO repeats his direction that you hand your pistol to him, first check for the partner or back-up. Then do it, being careful not to (1) put your finger anywhere near the trigger (2) sweep yourself with the barrel, or (3) sweep LEO with the barrel. It is nearly impossible in a car to accomplish all three.

Take off you entire holster if possible and hand over the package. Perhaps set the pistol down somewhere and step away from it.

I would recommend saying "Officer, I'm uncomfortable handing you a loaded pistol, but I have no problem if you wish to remove it from me yourself." It may be impossible to disarm while sitting in car without sweeping someone with the muzzle.

If the LEO wants to disarm you during the traffic stop, let him. I wouldn't expect the LEO to reload your gun after the stop. I would expect he would hand it back unloaded.

On the NICS check issue, recently Michigan State Attorney General Mike Cox announced that the BATF has approved his request to allow the Michigan Concealed Pistol License as an alternative to the NICS check when purchasing a firearm from an FFL dealer using the ATF Form 4473. This ruling becomes effective on Friday, March 24, 2006. You can read the announcement here.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/032406openletter-ffl.pdf


lawyers sugestions for meathods of doing this.
 

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I have a friend going to school to become a LEO. He is in the CPL section of the course at this time. It seems that it depends on were you get your education.
 

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After I was a cop, I started showing my hands, out the window, after I started getting stopped. Recently, having gotten my CCW license, I had forgot about legally carrying firearms in my car and being on the computers. A cop stopped me and walked up the the car and immediately asked me about it. No doubt, he was watching my hands while I got my papers out of my glove box. My revolver was hidden inside my door pocket pouch. No problem, we were both nice and polite, but I was reminded that, if you choose to get a CCW and take the classes, you will agree to being fingerprinted and photographed with background checks that will be forever stored on hard drives as long as you are alive.
 

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I was stopped not long ago. My words were "Sir I am informing you I have a LTCF and it is on my person located ________" Cop said thank you sir, please step out of the vehicle, for my safety I will put in in my vehicle and return it when we are done. I gave it to him with slide OPEN and mag REMOVED (after I asked if I could do that) after all was said and done he gave it all back and asked if it was a comfortable carry gun,lol. I have found that most cops are pretty good about it.(although his hand was on his sidearm the entire time until MINE was in his weak hand)
~Steve
 

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God help us all after ONE CCW carrier commits a crime, hurts or kills an innocent [or guilty] bystander or civilian, or does likewise to a cop at a traffic stop. I have a hunch that such an incident will be lunch for The Brady Bunch and their pet media whores, once more. They have already blamed the 2nd Ammendment and claimed that the murderous militant Major Moozlim could not have murdered those 13 people, at Ft. Hood, had he not legally been allowed to buy his gun at a local store. Therefore, disarm us all so that we can be safe at the mall.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
God help us all after ONE CCW carrier commits a crime, hurts or kills an innocent [or guilty] bystander or civilian, or does likewise to a cop at a traffic stop. I have a hunch that such an incident will be lunch for The Brady Bunch and their pet media whores, once more. They have already blamed the 2nd Ammendment and claimed that the murderous militant Major Moozlim could not have murdered those 13 people, at Ft. Hood, had he not legally been allowed to buy his gun at a local store. Therefore, disarm us all so that we can be safe at the mall.
You have me a bit confused...what is your point and how does it pertain to the topic at hand?:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I will also add that I have yet to have a bad experiance with a traffic stop or any other encounter with an officer. I have yet to be asked to dissarm although I know others who have been in the same area. In fact, one time I was NOT asked to when the person with me was...may have helped that I knew the officer and the other fella (my brother) was nervous as all get out as he has not had the interactions that I have had with local, state and federal law enforcement.

I know for fact that if you are calm...to an extent they will be as well. And if you are nervous...they will be as well. This is for good reason and the same things that I have been trained to look for everywhere I go. This is a HUGE difference between sheep'le and the shepherds watching out for them.

Sorry, off topic (but hey, it's my post...sorry)
 

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In Florida, most CCW instructors teach leaving your hands at 10 and 2 and informing (although not required by law unless asked) the officer of your weapon.
 

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I have had some contact with FL LEO's and I do not get too formal. I just inform them that I'm a legally armed Floridian. Each time the LEO has also kept it informal, I have never been asked for a permit, never been disarmed, always treated professionally.:hand10:
 

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I was told by my LGS clerk of how he was handcuffed and disarmed by a traffic stop 2 weeks ago....of course he keeps 3 guns on him at all times and a AR and a AK in his vehicle....I thought is was a funny story!
 

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I was stopped once. I turned off the engine, pull down the window and put my hands on the steering wheel. When the LEO approached my car he asked me for the DL; I handed it to him along with my CCW permit at the same time that I informed him I was carrying a firearm. To my surprise he did not pay much attention to it, and he walked back to his car to run me while I was waiting in my car. He was very professional and courteous.
 

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Police Stop w/CCW permit

In Florida, most CCW instructors teach leaving your hands at 10 and 2 and informing (although not required by law unless asked) the officer of your weapon.
In my case putting my hands at 10 & 2 wouldn't work at all. I have a pickup with a camper cap. The windows on my camper cap are tinted so you cannot see through them at all.

The first thing I do when pulled over is roll down my drivers side window & put both hands out the window in plain sight. When approached by the LEO I tell them that I have a CCW permit (although it is NOT required) & that I am carrying a firearm. At this point I'll follow the LEO's directions for as good encounter as possible.

As long as your hands are in plain sight that is the right thing to do in a traffic stop.
 

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I respect cops and the challenges they face. I stick my hands out the window and if at night I also turn the interior light on. Thankfully, I have only been stopped once in the past 6 plus years living here in FL.

But I will not inform an officer that I'm carrying (not required in FL). The way I see it is...I'm no bigger threat than someone not carrying, so why potentially escalate the situation by telling.

Now if I'm asked, I'm not going to lie. Or if for some reason I was asked to get out of my vehicle (which isn't a good thing) I would say something before getting out. In either instance, I would probably but both hands on the wheel before doing so.
 

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i wouldnt blame an leo if he left the empty mag on the street beside the car and told me not to pick it up until he was in his cruiser. they take enough risk and permit holder or not they dont really know who they are dealing with. there are some inconveniences we just have to live with in todays society. i am not going to pretend that when an leo sees my ccw that he should be thanking me for doing him a favor.
oh...i dont mind taking my shoes off in the airport either. its good to let the boys breath now and then and if it prevents one wipe from carrying something onto a plane its ok with me.
 

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oh...i dont mind taking my shoes off in the airport either.
I'm so sorry to hijack this thread...but (there's always a but isn't there) this is one of my hot buttons.

Taking off your shoes is all about feeling safer but doesn't do squat for security. What it does do is spread a lot of urine and crap from the floor to everybody's bags and clothes. Back when we were given a choice, I would always refuse to remove my shoes and get the wanding.

This was instituted after one moron put explosives in his shoe. Check out this link Here. Would you mind getting a rectal exam before getting on the plane? I'm for security procedures that work, but not for stupidity.

I live in MI so I have to inform but I can certainly see the logic in not informing. Disarming a law abiding person does nothing but increase the risk of an ND or negligent shooting of the person. Basically it's saying that the cop's safety is more important than the persons.
 

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There is no standard mandate for how to handle a CCW on a traffic stop or other official encounter. And there is good reason for that; every situation is unique.
I will very rarely disarm a permit holder. I just don't see the point in most cases.

On the rare occasion that I do, its because they are acting squirrelly or otherwise giving me a reason too.

I just arrested a permit holder this week. It started out as a simple traffic stop. I approached the car, and the guy was acting as goofy as could be. I could see that he was armed, and I already knew he had a valid permit. As the conversation went past three sentences, I knew something was up. So I pulled him out of the car and disarmed him, much to his protest. He gave the same arguments that we read here every time time this topic comes up.
Long story short, he had a open beer and a bag of coke in the car. I would have hated to see the outcome had I not disarmed him as soon as I confirmed his goofyness.

I guess my point is, officers have to rely on their experience and "spidey senses". To take that away in favor of an across the board mandate on how to deal with certain situations always cripples the officer and does nothing good for anybody.
 

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There is no standard mandate for how to handle a CCW on a traffic stop or other official encounter. And there is good reason for that; every situation is unique.
I will very rarely disarm a permit holder. I just don't see the point in most cases.

On the rare occasion that I do, its because they are acting squirrelly or otherwise giving me a reason too.

I just arrested a permit holder this week. It started out as a simple traffic stop. I approached the car, and the guy was acting as goofy as could be. I could see that he was armed, and I already knew he had a valid permit. As the conversation went past three sentences, I knew something was up. So I pulled him out of the car and disarmed him, much to his protest. He gave the same arguments that we read here every time time this topic comes up.
Long story short, he had a open beer and a bag of coke in the car. I would have hated to see the outcome had I not disarmed him as soon as I confirmed his goofyness.

I guess my point is, officers have to rely on their experience and "spidey senses". To take that away in favor of an across the board mandate on how to deal with certain situations always cripples the officer and does nothing good for anybody.
Nice post.

I use the ten and two method and have never had any problems. Then again I don't drink or snort and drive.
 
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