[beni]

This story has been on the local news here about a triple murder at a local motorcycle gear store that I actually patronize for parts and gear for my bike.

Employees avoid crossfire; two charged after three die in N. Cha - Live5News.com | Charleston, SC | News, Weather, Sports

The details still seem to be very sketchy at the moment. But from what it appears there was a fight that broke out between two groups of people inside the store. That went from in the store to outside the store. Once outside somebody started shooting. One account has one of the victims crawling back into the store with a gun to avoid the mob.

I'm curious to see your opinions on how a situation like this should be handled.

If I had been in the store I probably would have tried to move as far away from the fight as possible. Once they move outside I would stay in the store since my escape via my bike or car would be gone.

Where it gets dicey for me is how do I determine who is a threat and who isn't especially since what appears to be one of the victims comes back into the store with a gun (possibly had a CWP?). I think what I would probably try to just follow the employees to somewhere safer. Once we've barricaded ourselves anybody who comes through with a gun who isn't a LEO will be considered a threat and dealt with appropriately.

Does that response sound reasonable?

This case may get a little more interesting once more details emerge.

 

[Jeanlouise]

That sounds reasonable to me. In fact, it sounds like the only reasonable thing to do. Barracade yourself till the LEOS come. If someone tries to get to you, then you have to defend yourself.

Trying to defend yourself in the middle of "Bikers Gone Wild" would be crazy.

I've never heard of this wording before (in bold):

"Police say 32-year-old Barry Stinson was also arrested and charged with lynching by mob, 2nd degree. Both men are expected in bond court Monday morning."

 

[paaiyan]

I'd have to mostly agree with you. Take everyone who looks scared and get the heck out of Dodge.

 

[Inspector71]

If that store has a back door or window I'm gone. I'll come back for my car or bike when the smoke clears.

 

[ccw9mm]

Where it gets dicey for me is how do I determine who is a threat and who isn't especially since what appears to be one of the victims comes back into the store with a gun (possibly had a CWP?).

Hard to know, until a person blows sideways or exhibits clear precursor indicators. In any store with ~10 customers or visitors and some number of staff, it can be hard to identify anyone's motives or purpose until they provide indication of that. (My crystal ball was DOA, when issued, back when. Don't know about yours.)

I try to keep aware of my surroundings, check out most new arrivals as they come near my "zone." Clear indicators of nervousness, aggression, heavy focus on others or with a serious look of intent in a person's demeanor, deliberate positioning, deliberate hard focus on one or more others in the shop ... these sorts of things can be clues. Can be, though sometimes they can be hard to pick up. In shops I know well, in past I have been able to quickly evaluate newcomers as being out of place or seemingly fitting with the "normal" crowd. Hard to do in a shop I'm not at all that often, as I don't "know" the clientele that well.

About all one can do is to be aware, remain aware, monitor the situation and new arrivals, be aware of changes in tension/focus, and to keep others from getting right behind. Beyond that, it's hard to do much until someone starts blowing.

The details still seem to be very sketchy at the moment. But from what it appears there was a fight that broke out between two groups of people inside the store. That went from in the store to outside the store. Once outside somebody started shooting. One account has one of the victims crawling back into the store with a gun to avoid the mob.

Tough situation. Inside a shop, others arrive, then something blows between two groups within the shop sometime later. Either there are accessible exits, or spots to take cover behind, or there aren't. Most likely, a person is going to be able to hunker down quickly out of the way, whether behind the counter or another aisle. Won't likely be good "cover," but it could help one being specifically targeted if it turned out to be someone off his meds and looking for body count. If an exit's nearby, heading out quickly might be the best option, depending on the store's layout and how close I and the parties are to the exits. Hard to say, as every situation's different. Just like heading out of the line of fire at one of the recent mall shootings. Not a lot of good options, really. In the case of a single party blowing sideways, taking out the person is one option. But in a case of two groups going hammer and tongs, getting outta Dodge might be the only rational course of action, as best as one can do it, and even to another aisle might be sufficient.

 

[bigmacque]

A scene like this is exactly why cops hate riot scenes -- who's the good guy and who's the bad guy? If I'm a LEO and come up on that scene anyone that doesn't drop their weapon is going to get treated like a BG regardless of where they stand in the fight.

But I'm with all of those above ... in a situation like this, there's no way you know who's good and who's not, it's not your fight and not your problem and as long as they're only taking it out on each other I'd just call 911 and stay out of it.

 

[beni]

I've never heard of this wording before (in bold):

"Police say 32-year-old Barry Stinson was also arrested and charged with lynching by mob, 2nd degree. Both men are expected in bond court Monday morning."

It is essentially assault and battery by a mob that does not result in death. with a penalty not more than 30 years but no less than 3 years prison

Lynching by mob, 1st degree is assault and battery by a mob that results in death with a penalty no less than 30 years in prison.

In SC A mob is defined in §16-3-230 as an assemblage of two or more persons, without color or authority of law, gathered together for the premeditated purpose and with the premeditated intent of committing violence upon another.

 

[archer51]

If I could lock the door once they are outside, I would, then take cover. If not, find someplace to hold up that gives me cover, until the police show up and have the situation in hand.

 

[rocky]

Exit out the back, find good cover Get clear as best you can. At the fight stage I would be looking to get out ASAP.

 

[southernwi]

I've never heard of this wording before (in bold):

"Police say 32-year-old Barry Stinson was also arrested and charged with lynching by mob, 2nd degree. Both men are expected in bond court Monday morning."

I did see Beni's reply above explaining what it is (and thank you, Beni, for the definition on that), but I'm with Jeanlouise on this one. When I read the article, I couldn't ever recall seeing that as a charge before.

 

[Once]

Exit out the back, find good cover Get clear as best you can. At the fight stage I would be looking to get out ASAP.

Same here, I don't need to be collateral damage

 

[ccw9mm]

Exit out the back, find good cover Get clear as best you can. At the fight stage I would be looking to get out ASAP.

If an exit were clearly nearby, and if the two groups weren't near that exit, that's almost certainly going to be the best option.

 

[camsdaddy]

I work in a motorcycle shop so I find this very interesting. I would hope in this situation to verbally gather my fellow employees (only boss,wife, 2 techs and myself) and let them know whats up. I would then pick exit the furthest from the commotion and forget seeing anything.

 

[tcox4freedom]

A scene like this is exactly why cops hate riot scenes -- who's the good guy and who's the bad guy? If I'm a LEO and come up on that scene anyone that doesn't drop their weapon is going to get treated like a BG regardless of where they stand in the fight.

But I'm with all of those above ... in a situation like this, there's no way you know who's good and who's not, it's not your fight and not your problem and as long as they're only taking it out on each other I'd just call 911 and stay out of it.

Plus 1

This sounds like there may be more to the story here. (Lynching charges really reconfirm that for me.)
Unless, I had a full picture of who's who, I'm protecting me & mine. After the fight moved outside, I would be willing to help anyone who remained inside & out of it. But, I'm calling 911 & finding cover or an exit.


-

 

[Jeanlouise]

It is essentially assault and battery by a mob that does not result in death. with a penalty not more than 30 years but no less than 3 years prison

Lynching by mob, 1st degree is assault and battery by a mob that results in death with a penalty no less than 30 years in prison.

In SC A mob is defined in §16-3-230 as an assemblage of two or more persons, without color or authority of law, gathered together for the premeditated purpose and with the premeditated intent of committing violence upon another.

Thanks for the explanation! Interesting.

 

[Doghandler]

"color or authority of law". There's another interesting phrase.

 

[TX expat]

Exit out the back, find good cover Get clear as best you can. At the fight stage I would be looking to get out ASAP.

^^^this^^^

Anytime a dustup starts to brew, I start looking for the exit. If I have my family with me, I start gathering the flock and moving them away from the situation and towards an exit. I have absolutely zero desire to watch it unfold and I've seen enough fights that seeing one more isn't going to change my life, so I'm just looking to get clear of ground zero. These days weapons (both legal and illegal) are much more prevalent than 20 years ago, and darn near any fight (verbal or physical) can end in gunfire. Get moving, get clear and get safe.

 

[msgt/ret]

Exit out the back, find good cover Get clear as best you can. At the fight stage I would be looking to get out ASAP.

Same here, no need to add to the body count.

 

[maxwell97]

I'd also strongly consider finding a new shop to buy from...

 

[chuckusaret]

Situation awareness. I am quite sure there were indicators that trouble was brewing and I would have departed when I became aware of the first sign/indicator of trouble. Heck, two different motorcycle groups in the same store is one very big indicator. National fire codes require a minimum of two well marked means/exits to escape from any commercial business and which ever exit offered the safest escape route I would have used to made a hasty retreat. If escape was not possible I would have sought protection behind some type of barrier out of sight but not one that did not offer a possible unrestricted escape. Locking oneself in a storeroom, with no means of escape, is not one of my choices.....last resort, be prepared to defend yourself.