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The president cannot change the outcome of a court martial. The president may grant executive clemency (effectively forgiving the remainder of a prison sentence) or the president may grant a pardon (effectively setting aside the conviction and clearing the individual'
s record for the future).

In the cases under discussion whatever the president might do will please some people and displease other people.
 

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Article says he can dismiss a case or change a sentence.
Does not have to pardon or commute a sentence for that still shows the accused is guilty.
Regardless, I am sure most active duty are happier to have a CIC who has their back rather than one who just sacrificed them to the political animal
 

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This came into play regarding Capt. Charles McVeigh of the USS Indianapolis. As much as several presidents, congressmen, and naval officers deplored the guilty verdict, there was and is no way to change it. It's still on his record, along with numerous resolutions from various institutions saying the verdict was unjust.
 

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As commander in chief of the armed services and president of the United States, I'm sure somewhere between those two powers he has the capability to resolve any issues these three service members have. Pardon, commute, set aside, something.
 

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I think its sad that there is even a need for this.
 

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I think its sad that there is even a need for this.
I don't know what the exact circumstances that brought on charges are, so I cannot say whether the charges are unwarranted. I have no illusion that every last man or woman in the service is of perfect and sterling character.
 

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Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
 

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Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2
Unlike the Vietnam war where we were watching every evening on the news the horror of war.
Then again maybe it was not a good thing. I still am not sure how I think about seeing what needs to be done.
How it can change public opinion.
War is a horrible thing.
 

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I don't know what the exact circumstances that brought on charges are, so I cannot say whether the charges are unwarranted. I have no illusion that every last man or woman in the service is of perfect and sterling character.
I agree with what you say about the character of service members. I only know the stories of two of the three people mentioned, and I dont agree with how they have been treated in these cases, even though I may not think they, or at least one of them was completely in the right.

Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
War is messy. A lot of people, even some in our military have forgotten that. Just another reason why I think we need to wash our hands of the wars in the middle east.
 
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I am actually surprised that there have not been more prosecutions os US service members for illegal behavior on the battlefield. When you are fighting an enemy who hide i among the population the job of rooting them out has high probability that someone is going to be killed who maybe should not have been. In Nam on operations aimed at rooting out the Viet Cong innocent civilians were sometimes killed because of what the GI thought about the victims actions. Those were rarely caused by murderous intent. Whether from a bad decision or erring on the side of keeping safe it happened. I have no doubt that it still happens. Simple fact s that innocent people get killed in wars.

Should the President intervene? I do not know if he should but I do know he can. if he does, I hope the facts will be considered, and those facts go not just to the incident but also to the facts of how the court martial was conducted. I think that the concept of "beyond a reasonable doubt" can get lost during a court martial because the rules of war and the Uniform Code Of Military Justice very firmly established and often applied severely. In my opinion often too severely applied.
 

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It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2
Unlike the Vietnam war where we were watching every evening on the news the horror of war.
Then again maybe it was not a good thing. I still am not sure how I think about seeing what needs to be done.
How it can change public opinion.
War is a horrible thing.
I believe it was General Lee who said, while overlooking the carnage at Cold Harbor, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we grow fond of it".
 

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War is messy. A lot of people, even some in our military have forgotten that. Just another reason why I think we need to wash our hands of the wars in the middle east.
One more reason we should listen to the wisdom of the Founders. Both Washington and Jefferson warned of foreign entanglements. And Jefferson's remarks about this specifically dealt with our involvement with Muslim countries in Africa.
 

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I am actually surprised that there have not been more prosecutions os US service members for illegal behavior on the battlefield. When you are fighting an enemy who hide i among the population the job of rooting them out has high probability that someone is going to be killed who maybe should not have been. In Nam on operations aimed at rooting out the Viet Cong innocent civilians were sometimes killed because of what the GI thought about the victims actions. Those were rarely caused by murderous intent. Whether from a bad decision or erring on the side of keeping safe it happened. I have no doubt that it still happens. Simple fact s that innocent people get killed in wars.

Should the President intervene? I do not know if he should but I do know he can. if he does, I hope the facts will be considered, and those facts go not just to the incident but also to the facts of how the court martial was conducted. I think that the concept of "beyond a reasonable doubt" can get lost during a court martial because the rules of war and the Uniform Code Of Military Justice very firmly established and often applied severely. In my opinion often too severely applied.
As far as Im concerned, civilian deaths is just a consequence of this type of war. If anyone is looking to hold anyone accountable for those deaths, they should be looking not at our military, but at our government for putting them there.
 

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It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2
Unlike the Vietnam war where we were watching every evening on the news the horror of war...
That's not really true.
During WW2, there was no TV. Instead, we went to the movies. Many went to the movies at least once a week.
With every movie show, there was a Newsreel. Most of every Newsreel show was about the war. (Of course.)
We saw "the horrors of war" quite often. I remember them vividly.

The big difference was both our attitudes and the attitude of the media. We were all pro-war during WW2. We knew that it was a just war.
We were anti-war during Vietnam because we knew that it was not a just war. Not only that, but we were pretty sure that it was an unwinnable war.

Our "war crimes" were not terribly important during WW2, because the other side's own war crimes were already well known as being beyond horrible.
We were fighting the embodiment of evil, bent upon subjugating the entire world and doing horrible things to the people they conquered.
What were our "war crimes," in relation to that?

WW2 was indeed horrible.
But that has to be seen in relation to whom we were fighting.
 

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Here is an idea. Have the "squad" serve on the front lines. I wonder if this would make Liberals rethink going after our military men and women who work in dangerous conditions with imperfect information.
 

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I believe it was General Lee that said, when overlooking the carnage at Cold Harbor, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we grow fond of it".
I believe it was Sherman who said, "War is hell." Pretty much nailed that idea in three words. To think otherwise is foolish.
 

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That's not really true.

Our "war crimes" were not terribly important during WW2, because the other side's own war crimes were already well known as being beyond horrible.
We were fighting the embodiment of evil, bent upon subjugating the entire world and doing horrible things to the people they conquered.
What were our "war crimes," in relation to that?

WW2 was indeed horrible.
But that has to be seen in relation to whom we were fighting.
Today what are our "war crimes" as compared to the atrocities perpetrated by the other side.
We are still fighting the embodiment of evil, hell bent on subjugating the entire world and doing horrible things to the people the conquered.
Funny how some things never change
 
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