Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have always liked the tubular bullet design like the "cyclone" in the pic and the PMC ultramag.

I wonder why the design was never picked back up by another company after PMC horrible marketing and strange caliber choice to release it in.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
ann - welcome :smile:

This has partly the look of a truncated cone but also - bit like an RN with nose chopped off. I was not familiar with it. Appears from what I can see to have a brass jacket? Is that a .40 see here or am I looking at a 9mm?

I cannot tho see this being reliable for feeding with that sharp edge.

Can you tell us more about it?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,005 Posts
never seen anything like that before either. BTW, welcome.
 

·
1951 - 2011
Joined
·
496 Posts
Hello. Though in .38 Special +P, here is another picture of a PMC Ultramag cartridge. If memory serves, the bullet weighs 66 grains and gets about 1400 ft/sec from a 4" bbl. It is hollow all the way through and there is a nylon-like ball at the rear to seal the "tunnel" so that it can be fired. Below is my only picture of any PMC Ultramag.
I have no idea of the velocity of the round in other calibers, but suspect that it is the light/fast approach based solely on the .38 shown here.


This round hit low out of my revolvers, which is not surprising considering its light weight for caliber and high velocity for same.

I never "tested" the round on anything living, but seem to recall that gelatin tests were not that great compared to expanding bullets. This one doesn't expand from what I've seen.

I believe that it was withdrawn for a couple of reasons:

Poor sales

Concerns that it might punch the Level II Kevlar body armor used by law enforcement.

Best.
 

·
1952 - 2006
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
I found these 'tubular bullets to be totally useless with one exception.

They have just the right inside diameter to fit a .22 blank into the nose. If superglued in when fired, on impact with the target, it detonates the rimfire primer via the sharp tubular mouth.
Makes for a heck of an impact.

And Welcome Ann
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Hello fellow shooters;
This bullet I believe was called a "Cookie Cutter", I remember seeing them years ago. I believe they were a brass tube with a teflon wad at the base. Were designed for higher velocities and to expand quickly and not over penetrate. I think they pretty muched went to the wayside because of no marketing, and I do not beleive they would puncture a vest...
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,598 Posts
I Believe

The "Technical Name" was Truncated Cone Hollow Point as that Bullet Nose Configuration.

I guess that particular cartridge would be termed a truncated cone semi~jacketed hollow point.

Welcome ann. Thanks for registering! :usflag:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
The round in the pic is a 45acp "cyclone"goverment protype test round it is hollow all the way through and is a steel tube with a copper jacket it has a pusher disc at the bottom that falls away after the round is fired.This is the original design that PMC leased the rights from Abe Flatue the designer of the ring airfoil design.

These "cyclone" type rounds were used by the BATFE at waco and by other goverment types as their issue AP round and they are excellent AP rounds.

The 9mm cyclone rounds have a nylon cap to help stop the sharp steel edge of the bullet eating up the feed ramps in the MP5.

The "magic" of the tubular is not expansion of any type... but it is a excellent cutting round that dislodges tissue and cuts veins etc... as it goes through the target.

They are a very cool design that just seems to have been lost.

It may be because of the excellent AP ability of the ring airfoil design that the round has not been developed further for civilians.

Here is a pic of a 9mm prototype tubular "Pan Metal Corp" type all copper bullet,and some info on the "cyclones".
 

·
1951 - 2011
Joined
·
496 Posts
Hello. I'll bet they would be good on deflating tires. Some years ago when running one brand and type of JHP against another vs ball on inflated automobile tires, the old Geco "BAT" round deflated noticeably quicker than others. I don't recall by how much as those notes are hopelessly lost, but it was measureable and repeatable. Thanks for the information on the Cyclone.

Best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Here is a tire that was shot by a GAS/BAT as a test,they punch nice holes as for the tubulars they would work excellent also IMO.

FWIW-Here is a pic of some old school BAT/GAS rounds used in a court case.The corroded BAT bullet on the far left is from a body found in the late 1980s it was in the body for at least 20days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
My understanding ( as always I can be wrong ) is that most of not all of the tubular ammo was not made out of lead. As such I believe that this type of ammo is considered " armour piercing" and as such is not legal to own/posses in US for the average person.

There is also quite a bit of discussion as to the amount of damage such a bullet will do to a living body since the major mechanism of damage is cut rather then crush. I personally have no idea.

NukemJim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
That Round

The Round You Have The Photo Of Is The One I Have Been Trying To Think Of For A While. It Was Sold To The Public Years Ago, Around 15 Years Ago Or So. It Will Go Thru A Vest,,,,,,,,,,,, Big Stink About It At The Time It Came Out. I Think It Was Tested And Went Thru Both Sides Of A Vest.. Very Bad For Police !!! They Took It Off The Market, And I Have Not Seen One For Many Years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Andy

Retired Cop/fed
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,133 Posts
Hello. My own informal expansion tests with them as well as what I have seen from others indicates that they do not expand. None had any "base" left when removed from gelatin, water, ductseal, or "wetpack" and without it, pressure cannot build in the bullet itself to promote expansion.

Best.
Air pressure would blow the base wad off, either in flight or on hitting something; then you have to hit something hard to get bullet deformation, as you found in your tests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
481 Posts
I think everyone pretty much covered it, I've heard of this ammo as "air ring foil" before, it it's purpose is AP, aparently some of this was tested on the standard kevlar helmets and body armor... cut right through...

I heard about it in college in ~98/99...
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top