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Discussion Starter #1
So me and my family own and operate a tranportation company, taxis, sedans, limos and a "party bus". Last night i was waiting on the street downtown for my "VIP" group, outside a night club, there was this drunk guy mid 20's spitting on people, throwing things and starting fights with random people, yelling ect... so i keep my distance and watch him, shortly my people (mostly young ladies) start loading in my van, this drunk comes over and starts grabbing the girls and tries to get in the van as they where loading in, i shine my surefire light in his eyes and "removed him from our group" during his few seconds of blindness, then secured my clients and drove off. i barley had time to get away and he caught up to me on foot at the red light 100ft away and a cop came around the corner and he took off, i sure did not want to involve my sidearm as he was unarmed, i am thinking i need to carry OC, this type of thing is happening more, especially with collage kids back in town. anything else i could carry? i don't want a taser because that gets expensive to refill, and these morons are not worth it.
 

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In a situation like that, I think my first reaction to seeing anyone spitting and abusing anyone would be to call the police to the location ASAP. That's just a prelude to a worse situation. I think you did the right thing. Any physical altercation without sufficient witnesses could cause you undo cost and this guy sounds like one of those morons that's not worth it.
 

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Gottabkidding beat me to it. How long did you watch this guy and do nothing while you were waiting for your group?
I would have placed a call to 911 when I first noticed him bothering others, and before your group came out to be his next target.
Pepper spray might be a nice option in this case as well.
 

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The only thing about using OC sprays is, when using from car, you run the risk of gassing yourself or your clients.
 

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I'm curious, and no offense intended, - why did you not call 911?
 

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I wouldn't use them from the car or van, but I would hope the OP at least got out of the vehicle to escort his clients into it.
A stream type pepper spray would have been a non lethal but effective deterant here, but better SA could have prevented the whole incident.
 

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Pepper spray might be a nice option in this case as well.
+1, good alternative.. He wouldn't have been able to catch up to ya at the light if he'd been rolling around on the ground. :hand10:
 

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911 is always a good first step when you have the time and ability, it may help you, should you have to take other actions.
 

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First, I don't know how long you watched him assault people (spitting is assault, IIRC), but the first thing would have been to call 911 in my opinion.

OC is an option, although if drunk, it may not have full or any effect.
Still, probably your best option under the given set of circumstances.
 

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I agree with first calling 911.
I also carry OC in my car/truck. My preferred OC is foam due to the fact it is not a likely to blow back in my face. I sometimes also carry OC on my person, depending on where I am planning to go.

Regards,
Jerry
 

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Pepper gel and foam are superior to pepper spray or mist.

10% gel or foam with UV dye will do the trick.
 

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I agree with first calling 911.
I also carry OC in my car/truck. My preferred OC is foam due to the fact it is not a likely to blow back in my face. I sometimes also carry OC on my person, depending on where I am planning to go.

Regards,
Jerry
Agreed. Less chance of blow back using foam. OC (Oleoresin Capsicum) is oil-based and is a persistent chemical agent that can last for days. You don't want other people being affected except the BG.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How long did you watch this guy and do nothing while you were waiting for your group?
I would have placed a call to 911 when I first noticed him bothering others, and before your group came out to be his next target.

This was in a crowded downtown area, several people around me where
on the their cell phones with 911 right away, as far as "doing nothing" i was not about to jump in the middle of a drunken brawl and break it up and attempt to restrain this guy, even though i was "armed to the teeth" my plan was get out with my people safely.
 

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"tasers are expensive to refill"? How much do you think an attorney costs to defend you if you use your pistol?

+1 on calling 911. Just stay out of the moron's way as much as possible. He's going to get busted and removed as soon as the police get there.
 

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First, it's good you didn't get directly involved with intervening with the other bystanders being assaulted. You have clients you are somewhat responsible for and your first duty was directed towards them when they emerged from the building. While you are not a bodyguard per say, it's just good business practice to take care of them and protect your clients to the best of your ability.

What you could have done was call 911, but as you said in your follow up post was that several other bystanders were already calling 911 so that covers that.

I am all for having alternate "less than lethal" methods of self defense in addition to my firearm. The gun is reserved for the extreme end of the force continuum and one who carries a gun really should have alternate means to deal with potential violent encounters which do not rise to the level of deadly force.

The deployment of your Surefire flashlight to temporarily blind and disorient him is very good tactic. A decent high intensity flashlight really is a mandatory piece of equipment for those who carry deadly weapons.

I think OC spray is a good addition in the less than lethal realm for use against potentially violent situations where the adversary who appears to be unarmed and continues to be a threat to your well being. I have carried OC spray for years.

I also carry a small impact tool called a Kubotan. It can be used for pain compliance, pressure points and assisting in acquiring wrist or arm locks on an aggressor. My particular Kubotan is in the form of my EDC flashlight which is almost the same dimensions as a regulation Kubotan. My flashlight is also 120 lumen led type which provides enough light to blind a subject and do double duty as the Kubotan. There is a very simple and inexpensive manual you can get for the Kubotan which shows you the variety of uses for it. The Kubotan can also be carried on a key ring and if you google "Kubotan" you will find lots of information on it's use, where to buy and where to find a copy of the training manual.

Lastly, if you are in the limo business and often have high-end clients and people who often go clubbing and such activities where alcohol is served in abundance, you might want to invest in taking an "executive protection" course. Such programs are available all over and can provide you with proper training to protect your clients using methods and tools to handle situations through the entire range of the force continuum. The proper research on your part is needed to seek out the reputable trainers in that area.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I got some "saber red" OC, from what i read, it will ruin your evening if you get sprayed...
 

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Under those circumstances...you did very well.:hand10:
"Liquid Superman" can make some individuals a 'no-win" dangerous encounter.:ziplip:
 

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IMHO you did good with the light. As far as the OC, I don't know and you may want to check with a lawyer prior first. Even though there were people present, once you deploy the OC against the drunk, he can contend that you attacked him. You had clients, I would not depend on them to be witnesses or anybody else present in the area for that matter. I have seen time and again people developing amnesia or leaving the area before PD arrives.

If you use the OC, you must involve PD in the process which means wait for them, fill a report while your customers are waiting in the van and not arriving where they want to go and where they paid you for.

Options? As I said, the light was good. Maybe you may want to get another one with a higher intensity and/or flashing to disrupt him. Also firm and loud commands to back off and a hastily retreat after he complies. Your first responsibility is with your clients.
 

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As many have already said 911. I also think you have called them earlier from his other actions to the other people in the parking lot.
 
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