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Discussion Starter #1
Using a Shield .45
Here is results from 4 layers of denim test using a 6x6x20" clear ballisticgel block. Temp 28degrees, humidity 47% and pressure 30.3inHg. Previous test is below and was done with bare gel.

With both HST and Ranger 230+p and 230 standard pressure was very inconsistent. Around half the rounds would clog with denim and pass through 20" with no expansion. When they did expand penetration was only 11 1/2" This was the exact same results as Federal HST 230+P and standard pressure. 3 out of 4 rounds would fail to expand and passed through
Hornady XTP 200 gr +P also failed to expand 3 out of 4 times and then one time it went to 19" and .51 expansion.
Magtech 230gr JHP failed to fire! The striker would not even dent the primer!
Underwood 120gr Xtreme defense did very well and penetrated to 17" 4 out of 4 times. Of course no expansion with the solid copper bullet
Corbon 165+P DPX expanded beautifully and penetrated 9-10" each time.
The clear winner today was Corbon 185+P DPX.
4 out of 4 expanded beautifully and penetrated to 14 1/2-15" each time. It also performed exactly the same in bare gel.
The bare tests are below

I did a impromptu clearballistics FBI BARE gel test about a week ago.
I used Shield 45
6"x6"x16" clearballistics FBIgel with wood backstop
It was 17 degrees F, 61% humidity, Pressure 30.3%
I used my .45 Shield
Federal HST 230gr= penetrated 11 1/2" expanded .82
Federal HST 230 gr +P= penetrated 11 3/4" expanded .80
Critical duty 220 +P = passed through block. recovered in wood .51"
Underwood Extreme defense 120gr=passed through block recovered in wood
Winchester Ranger 230gr (RA45T)=penetrated 11 1/2" expanded .75-.85"
Widest petal was .85
Winchester Ranger 230gr+P (RA45TP)=penetrated 14 3/4" expanded .75-.85
I then shot 4 more rounds of Ranger 230gr+P and they went from 14 1/2" to 14 7/8"
So with my little test I will be carrying the Ranger 230+P.
Just thought you might be interested in the results.
The Federal HST expand beautifully but don't even penetrate to 12" with the shorter Shield barrel.
Here is update.
I did Speer Gold dot 230gr Standard pressure=13"penetration with .625 expansion
Corbon DPX 185gr+P=14 1/2" penetration with .75 expansion
I still like the Ranger 230+P so far with 14 1/2-14 3/4" penetration and .85 expansion at widest point.
One Corbon turned completely around 180degrees
Both expanded nicely
ON SIDE NOTE:
I also tested 9mm out of a Glock 43 with 4 layers of Denim
HST 124gr standard pressure was the clear and decisive winner by a land slide
5 out of 5 penetrated to 18 1/2" and all expanded beautifully
Hst 147 and 147+P also clogged with denim and some expanded and some passed through 20" block
Speer gold dots 124+P did not perform well. Only 1 expanded and penetrated to 14". the 4 others did not expand and passed through 20"
I did two .357 sig out of a G33
Corbon 125gr DPX pentrated 14 1/2" and expanded nicely
Underwood 125gr gold dot ROCKED the block. It hit so hard the block lifted up.
Penetrated 16" and expanded beautifully to .60"
 

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Nice work! I am really impressed with the performance of the 9mm 124 grain HST out of the G43. You don't have a 40 S&W you could throw in the mix do you?

On a side note, I'd hate to be on the business end of any of those loads.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Nice work! I am really impressed with the performance of the 9mm 124 grain HST out of the G43. You don't have a 40 S&W you could throw in the mix do you?

On a side note, I'd hate to be on the business end of any of those loads.
I do have 40 S&W. I have a Glock 23 as my nightstand gun. Right now it i loaded with 165gr HST. I will need to test those as well. I have a S&W MP 45C with 4" barrel that I will test next
 

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What was the width of the wound track for the xtreme defense round from Lehigh, and did it seem more profound than the hollow points? They advertise the permanent wound track being twice the width of hollow points, but I haven't seen a video of the .45 XD bullets through gel yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What was the width of the wound track for the xtreme defense round from Lehigh, and did it seem more profound than the hollow points? They advertise the permanent wound track being twice the width of hollow points, but I haven't seen a video of the .45 XD bullets through gel yet.
No, the wound track looked about the same as the lesser expanding bullets like the speer gold dot 230gr. I will look closer at it next time It was a difficult decision as I prefer deeper penetration closer to 18" with expansion. None of the rounds got close to 18" other than the Xtreme defense which was 17" and the best of the lot. They were very consistent in penetration. I chose the Corbon DPX 185+P because regardless of bare or denim they expanded perfectly each time and penetrated about 15". When I tested the 9mm 124 HST standard pressure they also were perfect for what I like. 18 1/2" penetration and excellent consistent expansion (not as much as bare gelatin and not as wide as the 147 HST). I have the Underwood 9mm 90gr +P Xtreme defense as well but at that time the block I had was only 16" long. The biggest surprise is the inconsistency of complete non expansion through denim of some rounds. So basically in a nut shell Corbon .45 DPX 185+P was extremely consistent along with HST 9mm 124 standard pressure and Underwood 120gr Xtreme defense. Also .357 sig Underwood 125gr gold dot and .357 Sig 125gr DPX were completely consistent out of my G33
 

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IMO, after observing the presented data, I would choose the one with the nearest consistent penetration to at least 17 inches of depth.
I could care less that a bullet that is already almost .5 inches expands, I want it to reliably get to where it needs to be.
 

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I looked at your post because my neighbor just bought a 45 shield but I was wondering if similar results could be expected from my JHP. Is it the gun or the ammo that is being tested here?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
IMO, after observing the presented data, I would choose the one with the nearest consistent penetration to at least 17 inches of depth.
I could care less that a bullet that is already almost .5 inches expands, I want it to reliably get to where it needs to be.
I am rethinking this as well. For the Shield I think I am going to change to the Underwood Xtreme defense.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I looked at your post because my neighbor just bought a 45 shield but I was wondering if similar results could be expected from my JHP. Is it the gun or the ammo that is being tested here?
I am trying to find a round that performs well in a short barrel 45 Shield. The Shield has been flawless so far
 

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I am rethinking this as well. For the Shield I think I am going to change to the Underwood Xtreme defense.
I think that the Lehigh or Underwood XPs are the best choice for my .380. I have been carrying them for a couple of years now for self defensive rounds. In case I need the extra penetration of a solid copper round in the .380. Glad that the shield is working good for you. My neighbor showed me his Shield before he even had a chance to fire it. Then I saw him taking the guns out to practice over the weekend. He is taking the CCW class now.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think that the Lehigh or Underwood XPs are the best choice for my .380. I have been carrying them for a couple of years now for self defensive rounds. In case I need the extra penetration of a solid copper round in the .380. Glad that the shield is working good for you. My neighbor showed me his Shield before he even had a chance to fire it. Then I saw him taking the guns out to practice over the weekend. He is taking the CCW class now.
I carry Underwood .380 90gr xtreme penetrators in my LCP's, I carry Federal HST 124 standard pressure in my 9mm's and looks like for the Shield 45 it will be Underwood Xtreme defense. I did order some more 45's to test from underwood. I am also going to test them in a 4" barrel MP45c. I think I will use one tshirt, one polar fleece, one denim and one down coat. Typical winter wear for here in NY
 

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I am a little puzzled why so much of the ammunition that has been previously shown as being very reliable in other tests (147gr HST and 124+ GD in 9mm) did so poorly in your test.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I am a little puzzled why so much of the ammunition that has been previously shown as being very reliable in other tests (147gr HST and 124+ GD in 9mm) did so poorly in your test.
I agree with you 100%. So am I! I used 4 layers of denim from Aeropostale ladies fashion jeans (nowhere near as thick as levi's) in front of the blocks. Quite frankly I was shocked. I will say the 124 HST standard pressure out of my Glock 43 was perfect every time. I suspect its because of the short barrels. In bare gelatin they all performed beautifully in regards to expanding. It's the denim that clogged the hole
Next test I am going to use down coat, polar fleece, t shirt and one layer of Jeans
 

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Thanks for the info! Just wondering if the bare block shots were shot during the same trip to the range as the denim? Were the denim shots fired near the end of the your session where the cold could have had an effect on the gel? I think it's interesting to see that maybe cold temps affect the performance of a SD round. I have seen how a rifle will shoot differently on the 80* summer day at the range compared to the 20* day in the deer woods. Most gel tests I can remember happen indoors or on warmer days outside, not that I'd blame them or do anything different, but maybe you found something that needs more research.
Thanks for posting.
 

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No, the wound track looked about the same as the lesser expanding bullets like the speer gold dot 230gr. I will look closer at it next time It was a difficult decision as I prefer deeper penetration closer to 18" with expansion. None of the rounds got close to 18" other than the Xtreme defense which was 17" and the best of the lot. They were very consistent in penetration.
Interesting. I carry the XD in 380, 9 and 40, but haven't yet switched in .45 from the Lehigh CF round in +P and a few Lehigh XP at the bottom of the mag. I'll probably buy some XD eventually. My winter carry is a Para P-10 Ltd, so 11 rounds of .45. It's only a 3" barrel, but plenty accurate.

I looked around and found a gel shot from the XD .45 in one review:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...-xtreme-defense-bullets-underwood-ammunition/

https://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Untitled.png

That's from a 5" barrel. Pretty impressive wound channel.

Here are the wound measurements with various barriers before the gel:
https://truthaboutguns-zippykid.net...een-Shot-2016-03-17-at-1.31.53-PM-730x169.png

and forgot I had seen this one previously (from an M&P compact):
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the info! Just wondering if the bare block shots were shot during the same trip to the range as the denim? Were the denim shots fired near the end of the your session where the cold could have had an effect on the gel? I think it's interesting to see that maybe cold temps affect the performance of a SD round. I have seen how a rifle will shoot differently on the 80* summer day at the range compared to the 20* day in the deer woods. Most gel tests I can remember happen indoors or on warmer days outside, not that I'd blame them or do anything different, but maybe you found something that needs more research.
Thanks for posting.
The bare gel was shot on a different day and it was colder. The block was out longer. The denim was in a room at 68 degrees for 3 days. I then took it outside and shot the rounds within 10 minutes so it didnt have time to cool down
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Interesting. I looked around and found a gel shot from the XD .45 in one review:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...-xtreme-defense-bullets-underwood-ammunition/

https://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Untitled.png

That's from a 5" barrel. Pretty impressive wound channel.

Here are the measurements with various barriers before the gel:
https://truthaboutguns-zippykid.net...een-Shot-2016-03-17-at-1.31.53-PM-730x169.png
I have made the decision to carry the .45 Underwood 120gr Xtreme defense in my .45 Shield. I do have some more rounds to test but so far that round has been the deepest penetration without over penetrating.
 

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I am a little puzzled why so much of the ammunition that has been previously shown as being very reliable in other tests (147gr HST and 124+ GD in 9mm) did so poorly in your test.
Yes I am as well. I suspect the problem is ambient temperature. Cold causes molecules to be compressed which makes material denser than in more "normal" conditions. The gel has a very specific temperature range where testing is consistent and valid. 17 deg is, IIRC, well below that temperature. If you mentioned the temp of the gel and the BB calibration, I must have missed it.

To the OP: I would suggest doing the BB penetration test regardless of your test temperature. Measure the temp of the gel, shoot the BBs and measure. There is a mfgr's spec for what that penetration should be. I don't think you can just "adjust" data (not that you did) that is taken out of temp spec because the density of the gel may or may not be linear along the temp curve.

In our neck of the woods, we have the opposite problem - always much hotter than the gel.
 
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