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I'm not big on cutting and running just because I lost the first battle. Eventually there will be nowhere left to go. I have a lot to think about, as I've never been faced with the prospect of becoming a felon by judicial fiat before. All I know is I'm too damned old to be kowtowing to fools and dictators (It's hard on the knees and the back).

Eventually, it boils down to this: "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
- Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775, St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia.
 

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Bloomberg and his Moms spent $2M on the elections. The NRA? $300,000. Draw your own conclusions.
I cant think of the last time I have voted based on the amount of money a PAC spent on an election.
 
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I cant think of the last time I have voted based on the amount of money a PAC spent on an election.
Maybe not, but you might be surprised how many voters decide who to vote for while filling out the ballot, and the name they check is the one that has the most familiarity of mind. And what creates that familiarity of mind? The billboards and TV ads they most recently and frequently saw. That is where the money factor comes in.
 

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I cant think of the last time I have voted based on the amount of money a PAC spent on an election.
That doesn't sound like fighting for gun rights to me. It sounds like an excuse for losing Virginia.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I cant think of the last time I have voted based on the amount of money a PAC spent on an election.
I am sure that holds true for better informed voters like yourself, but Bloomberg's money bought a slew of negative campaign ads that ran on TV starting about two weeks before the election and ramped up to the day of. It's interesting, they were not mainly about guns. They were character assassinations, based on incidents that may or may not have happened in a candidate's past. It was Kavanaugh hearing-type stuff. Some were just BS, like, "John Doe...he's not one of us" whatever the hell that means. The senator I campaigned for faced an ad about an argument she got into with a Capital police officer over a parking spot. They made it seem really ominous. She won by a small margin, but others were not so lucky.

The feeling is the ads were effective.
 

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Maybe not, but you might be surprised how many voters decide who to vote for while filling out the ballot, and the name they check is the one that has the most familiarity of mind. And what creates that familiarity of mind? The billboards and TV ads they most recently and frequently saw. That is where the money factor comes in.
Good point.
That doesn't sound like fighting for gun rights to me. It sounds like an excuse for losing Virginia.
Is it the NRA’s fault every time a dem wins?

I am sure that holds true for better informed voters like yourself, but Bloomberg's money bought a slew of negative campaign ads that ran on TV starting about two weeks before the election and ramped up to the day of. It's interesting, they were not mainly about guns. They were character assassinations, based on incidents that may or may not have happened in a candidate's past. It was Kavanaugh hearing-type stuff. Some were just BS, like, "John Doe...he's not one of us" whatever the hell that means. The senator I campaigned for faced an ad about an argument she got into with a Capital police officer over a parking spot. They made it seem really ominous. She won by a small margin, but others were not so lucky.

The feeling is the ads were effective.
Makes sense. I wasn’t there of course so I didn’t see what was going on. Is it fair to expect the NRA to outspend billionaires like Bloomberg though? They are a gun rights group, so obviously they are wanting the candidate opposite of Bloomberg, but if there were elections all over the country that they spend money on, and Bloombergs efforts are more concentrated, is it fair to put the blame on the NRA? There are plenty of other people/PAC’s, and if the voter turnout was anything like it was here, most people just don’t care. I knew someone in Virginia, this was a few years ago who said the only thing he cared about was getting marijuana legalized. I have no idea where Va is at with that, or who he was voting for, but those are the types of idiots we are up against and their vote counts just as much as ours. It sucks that for you guys the election came down to tv ads. The only thing I had on my ballot was constitutional amendments. I saw plenty of commercials for people running for other positions that I couldn’t vote on, but never put much thought into the commercials.
 

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I'm not going anywhere! I love VA! Absolutely love it! My wife and I have built an incredible life for ourselves here and this little set back isn't enough to run me off.

I've been expecting news of this magnitude for months now. As a result, I've been stocking up on ammo, magazines and various accessories to compensate for any upcoming and pending bands, restrictions or limitations in the future. I'm actually about to pick up a new piece in the morning to add to my already nice stash. As far as a possible magazine capacity limits bands to 10rds? Don't phase me either! My favorite carry pieces are .45's which are 8+1 rds w/2 extra 8 rd mags and, I already carry my HK VP9sk which is already 10+1 w/2 extra magazines. Sad news for us in VA indeed but I believe we can weather the storm.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Makes sense. I wasn’t there of course so I didn’t see what was going on. Is it fair to expect the NRA to outspend billionaires like Bloomberg though? They are a gun rights group, so obviously they are wanting the candidate opposite of Bloomberg, but if there were elections all over the country that they spend money on, and Bloombergs efforts are more concentrated, is it fair to put the blame on the NRA? There are plenty of other people/PAC’s, and if the voter turnout was anything like it was here, most people just don’t care. I knew someone in Virginia, this was a few years ago who said the only thing he cared about was getting marijuana legalized. I have no idea where Va is at with that, or who he was voting for, but those are the types of idiots we are up against and their vote counts just as much as ours. It sucks that for you guys the election came down to tv ads. The only thing I had on my ballot was constitutional amendments. I saw plenty of commercials for people running for other positions that I couldn’t vote on, but never put much thought into the commercials.
I am not the one who mentioned the NRA. I'm actually impressed the NRA did spend what they did. I have come to not expect much out of them at all, so I would say they really stepped up. Certainly there are other PACs that should have put money against Bloomberg and I imagine some did. It was just not enough. And Bloomberg proved once again that if he wants to pull strings in any state, there is a chance that he can.
 

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I'm not going anywhere! I love VA! Absolutely love it! My wife and I have built an incredible life for ourselves here and this little set back isn't enough to run me off.

I've been expecting news of this magnitude for months now. As a result, I've been stocking up on ammo, magazines and various accessories to compensate for any upcoming and pending bands, restrictions or limitations in the future. I'm actually about to pick up a new piece in the morning to add to my already nice stash. As far as a possible magazine capacity limits bands to 10rds? Don't phase me either! My favorite carry pieces are .45's which are 8+1 rds w/2 extra 8 rd mags and, I already carry my HK VP9sk which is already 10+1 w/2 extra magazines. Sad news for us in VA indeed but I believe we can weather the storm.

I was expecting this too so I was not really surprised. With all the transplants in Northern VA and the Tidewater areas, I'm not sure this state will ever return. Outside of northern VA and Tidewater, the rest of the state is very conservative...the election maps plainly show that. Problem is we just don't have enough votes here to counter the dems.
 

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The VA GOP isn’t helping it’s own cause.

A NoVA radio station, WMAL, invited the GOP to discuss on air the election and future. This radio station is an FM talk radio station that leans right, airs Rush Limbaugh, etc.

The GOP’s response, read over the air: “No. Have a nice day. “

They gave a big middle finger to a media outlet that’s on their own side. WTH?
 

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FWIW, a few years ago, Virginia's anti-gun governor and AG decided that they would revoke reciprocity for all but a couple other states. The outcry from us nationally caused the move to be reversed, and reciprocity with all other states continues through today.

Anything the grabbers try now that they have the government trifecta can be met with similar responses, and outcomes, IMO.
 

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FWIW, a few years ago, Virginia's anti-gun governor and AG decided that they would revoke reciprocity for all but a couple other states. The outcry from us nationally caused the move to be reversed, and reciprocity with all other states continues through today.

Anything the grabbers try now that they have the government trifecta can be met with similar responses, and outcomes, IMO.
It didn't really go down that way. I got the low down on it from the state senator who spearheaded the solution and was the main face-to-face negotiator with the governor. His name is Bryce Reeves. He is a former Army Ranger Captain and is still the GOP state senator from Spotsylvania County and was at the time on the Courts of Justice Committee, which oversees issues related to criminal law, including firearms law. He is a member and big supporter of the VCDL.

AG Herring does not report to the governor. He is independently elected. The job is seen as a possible stepping stone to governor, though, and governors have a one-term limit. It seems Herring did this on his own to make a name for himself. He also thought those states he dropped did not meet "VA's standards" for CC permits. That was BS, but he may have actually believed it. I can assure you, he could have cared less about any "national outcry." He was intractable about changing his mind on it.

The legislature was all GOP controlled at the time and Reeves was selected to negotiate a solution with the governor that would overrule Herring. He basically said, "What is something gun related that would make you look good, that we can live with, that would get you to sign off on overruling Herring? The governor was concerned about the "gun show loophole." Reeves, consulting with his GOP colleagues, came up with the idea that while they would not support UBCs, they wouldn't mind if the State Police had a table at all gunshows set up to do instant, voluntary background checks on sales. The governor could say he "convinced" the GOP legislature to have background checks at gunshows and in exchange he would sign a bill declaring that VA would honor reciprocity from all states, removing that discretion from the AG and the State Police. The bill was passed and signed in short order. It was a big slap down to Herring, who is still AG, but who has not sought higher office.
 

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It didn't really go down that way. I got the low down on it from the state senator who spearheaded the solution and was the main face-to-face negotiator with the governor. His name is Bryce Reeves. He is a former Army Ranger Captain and is still the GOP state senator from Spotsylvania County and was at the time on the Courts of Justice Committee, which oversees issues related to criminal law, including firearms law. He is a member and big supporter of the VCDL.

AG Herring does not report to the governor. He is independently elected. The job is seen as a possible stepping stone to governor, though, and governors have a one-term limit. It seems Herring did this on his own to make a name for himself. He also thought those states he dropped did not meet "VA's standards" for CC permits. That was BS, but he may have actually believed it. I can assure you, he could have cared less about any "national outcry." He was intractable about changing his mind on it.

The legislature was all GOP controlled at the time and Reeves was selected to negotiate a solution with the governor that would overrule Herring. He basically said, "What is something gun related that would make you look good, that we can live with, that would get you to sign off on overruling Herring? The governor was concerned about the "gun show loophole." Reeves, consulting with his GOP colleagues, came up with the idea that while they would not support UBCs, they wouldn't mind if the State Police had a table at all gunshows set up to do instant, voluntary background checks on sales. The governor could say he "convinced" the GOP legislature to have background checks at gunshows and in exchange he would sign a bill declaring that VA would honor reciprocity from all states, removing that discretion from the AG and the State Police. The bill was passed and signed in short order. It was a big slap down to Herring, who is still AG, but who has not sought higher office.
Clarification is a good thing. Thanks.
 
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I am not the one who mentioned the NRA. I'm actually impressed the NRA did spend what they did. I have come to not expect much out of them at all, so I would say they really stepped up. Certainly there are other PACs that should have put money against Bloomberg and I imagine some did. It was just not enough. And Bloomberg proved once again that if he wants to pull strings in any state, there is a chance that he can.
I know you weren’t the one who brought it up. I was just asking as a general question given the discussion.
 

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Clarification is a good thing. Thanks.
One other thing I now recall about that story that people in various other states should be aware of. One of the things that gave Herring "ammunition" to deny reciprocity is that when he took office, he noticed that all the reciprocity agreements had clauses that relevant information about the other state's permit process needed to be updated on a specified interval. Most of the states that got dropped were overdue on that commitment and were sent letters like three months before reciprocity was dropped asking them for the required update. Most did not respond.

I'm not saying that justified what Herring did. He could have had staffers call those state offices to get updates or even gotten them online. But those states who got their reciprocity yanked temporarily can partially thank the inaction of their own bureaucrats.
 

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One other thing I now recall about that story that people in various other states should be aware of. One of the things that gave Herring "ammunition" to deny reciprocity is that when he took office, he noticed that all the reciprocity agreements had clauses that relevant information about the other state's permit process needed to be updated on a specified interval. Most of the states that got dropped were overdue on that commitment and were sent letters like three months before reciprocity was dropped asking them for the required update. Most did not respond.

I'm not saying that justified what Herring did. He could have had staffers call those state offices to get updates or even gotten them online. But those states who got their reciprocity yanked temporarily can partially thank the inaction of their own bureaucrats.
The only state Ohio has lost reciprocity with is Minnesota, which did so after the Ohio legislature decided to allow active duty military members between the ages of 18 and 21 stationed in Ohio to obtain Concealed Handgun Licenses. Noteworthy that Wright Patterson AFB is the only active duty installation of any size to even have such people stationed. The law gave Ohioans nothing, and cost us reciprocity with a state I regularly travel to and through.
 

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The republican party is to blame for the loss in VA.
They had so much internal infighting between the "never Trumpers" and the conservatives.
In a lot of races, the democrats ran unopposed.
They could not even defeat a governor who wears "black face" and is OK with killing babies in the ninth month!
I blame the spineless Republican Party
 

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But don't forget about all the lives that are being saved. Think of how many potential murderers may have used the 15 rounder instead of the much more victim friendly 10 rounder. Criminals will now think twice now about stealing an AR, knowing that it is no longer legal to possess one. I feel safer already.

Common sense, I tell you.
 

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I feel your pain. We have grandkids here, so my wife won't budge either. I do have to opine, though, five miles? That's nothing.

It sounds like you're in my old stomping ground. I have relatives in Jacksonville, Jerseyville and Granite City. Spent a lot of time around there.
Yup. I live five miles from the Clark Bridge. Ever since Pritzker raised taxes in July I've bought all my gasoline over there except for some lawnmower gas.
 

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I had a feeling this was going to happen but held out hope. I have 2-3 years until retirement so a move will probably be in our future. I live less than 5 minutes from NC but I'm worried that Charlotte, Asheville, Chapel Hill and Durham will eventually turn NC too. Might look at going back to my home state of TN.
You have good reason to worry about NC, I am from there, don’t live there now and have no intentions on going back and really not even interested in visiting - heartbreaking what has happened to NC. Have said it and will say it again, highway 40 was the WORST thing to happen to NC as it connected to highway 95.

Your home state of TN, gosh, we were looking there but concerned that Asheville will overflow there! Too many liberals in Asheville. Tennessee has the same problem (IMO) that NASCAR has, it use to be conservative, country and southern. No more. Country music is heading that way too, broke my heart to see Dolly hanging with liberals - had to boycott her too!

I may disagree with jmf on some things but I think he is correct on this and agree with him completely. Missouri is safer I believe right now but heck that could change too.

Can’t believe I just asked my husband about Alaska! But seriously, if a person could get over the day/night thing it may be a safe place?

What concerns me about Missouri is they are in the middle, no “escape” hole. Growing up at the coast I never felt closed in and afraid that possibly could happen in MO. Am getting that feeling in Houston, crowded! (And looks like more on the way from CA).

Only positive the better half and I got off of CA folks moving to TX is that they have money and we are selling in a couple of years, we’d love to take their money :yup:
 
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