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Listening on the news how WA has banned vaping. Amazing. All these states jumping on the anti-vaping bandwagon yet they all still sell cigarettes.

I'm so glad our governments are protecting me from my personal stupidity.
 

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There was a saying for years during the campaigns against smoking that if tobacco were a previously unknown commodity that were newly introduced today, the FDA would never allow it. But now they approve vaping, which may be as harmful, or even more harmful. The vapors contain tinnier particles that can get nicotine more deeply in the lungs.

The company that really got vaping off the ground, Juul, claims they did it to provide a healthier alternative to smoking, but that seems like BS and they clearly started marketing to children. Now vape units are literally blowing up and burning people's faces.

It affects all of us in higher insurance costs and second hand smoke and vape (yes, second hand vape is a thing, and dangerous). I think people should be able to do what they want, but the FDA has a responsibility to make sure consumable products are safe. Both tobacco and vape are not, so they are not doing their job. These big companies are paying off the government and that is not a good thing either.

Stupidity cannot be eliminated. However, it should not be encouraged, either.
 

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I'm a pulmonologist.

I think it's stupid to ban vaping after a dozen deaths, when 1000 people die of smoking every day and we think that's legal. I'd rather people didn't smoke and get sick and die, but it's not up to me to force them to do or not do something with their bodies, as long as it only harms them and no one else. It's a stupid decision, but life is full of such. What happened to "my body, my choice"? However, marketing it as a "safer" alternative to smoking is rather deceptive, and I do find the increasing prevalence of e-cigs among children very disturbing. We don't really know if it is a safer alternative to smoking because it hasn't been out there long enough to decide what long-term damage it will cause. Furthermore, it is well-documented that e-cig smoke is full of volatile organics, nebulized lipid, and microplastics. There is really no way that mix is going to be safe.
Now that I've taken care of a few young people with respiratory failure in the ICU from vaping-related lung disease, I surely won't be recommending it as a smoking cessation method to any of my patients.
 

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Cigarettes kill slowly and terribly. Vaping, when it does, kills very, very quickly.

A family I know contacted me about their 22 year old, formerly very healthy, son who was found unconscious, not breathing, and foaming at the mouth. The ER team could find nothing in his blood work - no sign of drugs and a very minor amount of alcohol. They managed to get his heart beating again, but he could not breathe on his own and had to be put on a ventilator. A brain scan showed no activity. He died about 10 days later. The police investigation turned up that he had decided to try vaping for the first time. They have not received the results of the autopsy yet, but I'm sure they'll find out what killed him.

I thought I saw a report a couple of days ago from the CDC that said vaping was now killing more people every day than opioids - presumably because of the wide-spread deployment of NARCAN to first responders.
 
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I was driving behind a car with the driver vaping yesterday. His moon roof was tilted up. There was enormous volumes of smoke coming out and it smelled funny. I had thoughts of the western movies with the smoke belching train engines from the 1800s.
 

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Sad that our children are exposed to this crap......temptations can be difficult to resist....even to the kids with great parents....
 
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Congrats to our government for creating a more dangerous black market.

What’s interesting to me is that kids who started out vaping are starting to smoke as an alternative to vaping.

As for the number of deaths, that’s like talking about the gun violence epidemic. It’s really a non story.
 

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Congrats to our government for creating a more dangerous black market.

What’s interesting to me is that kids who started out vaping are starting to smoke as an alternative to vaping.

As for the number of deaths, that’s like talking about the gun violence epidemic. It’s really a non story.
I agree it is a non story - IF you don't have children exposed to these things and the dangerous lie that it is somehow safer than cigarettes.
 

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Lets see, electronic devices made in China, that produce intense heat, placed inside a persons mouth, inhaling questionable toxic substances, what could possibly go wrong!:rolleyes: Almost as a good an idea as the magnesium crack pipe!:ticking:
 

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I agree it is a non story - IF you don't have children exposed to these things and the dangerous lie that it is somehow safer than cigarettes.
23 people have died in the US from vaping. Other than Ebola, what can you think of that has caused less deaths in the US? I’m not saying I think vaping is a good idea, but from what I understand, the big problem is the black market that is being created, where more unknown chemicals are being put in.

I just think it’s interesting that we will talk about how few people are murdered with rifles, but something that causes only a small fraction of the deaths is some major epidemic that needs to be addressed. Meanwhile, people will continue eating McDonald’s, and McDonald’s will continue to catch the attention of our kids to ensure they want to eat the unhealthy food.
 

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Darwinism , cleansing the gene pool ...
 
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My wife and I have spent the last 25 years talking to our two sons about life.
Making good choices and the dangers of smoking and drugs and using alcohol responsibly.
So far the time and effort we put in has payed us back.
You think that they don't listen, but they do. Most of them anyway.
I think that there are way too many parents just phoning it in. No hands on parenting anymore.
The first 25 years I was their father, not their buddy.
Now I get to be both.
 

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I used e-cigarettes many years ago to quit smoking, that was many years long before the Juul and the current vaping craze. The e-cigs I used just contained nicotine and none of the juices, flavors, THC or black market stuff they try nowadays.
 

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I'm a pulmonologist.

I think it's stupid to ban vaping after a dozen deaths, when 1000 people die of smoking every day and we think that's legal. I'd rather people didn't smoke and get sick and die, but it's not up to me to force them to do or not do something with their bodies, as long as it only harms them and no one else. It's a stupid decision, but life is full of such. What happened to "my body, my choice"? However, marketing it as a "safer" alternative to smoking is rather deceptive, and I do find the increasing prevalence of e-cigs among children very disturbing. We don't really know if it is a safer alternative to smoking because it hasn't been out there long enough to decide what long-term damage it will cause. Furthermore, it is well-documented that e-cig smoke is full of volatile organics, nebulized lipid, and microplastics. There is really no way that mix is going to be safe.
Now that I've taken care of a few young people with respiratory failure in the ICU from vaping-related lung disease, I surely won't be recommending it as a smoking cessation method to any of my patients.
You make some excellent points GNIUS, thanks. (from a toxicologist.)

There is much we do no know about vaping, but I do have an observation.

Young folks are drawn to it. I see it daily. At a time when cigarette smoking is (justifiably) a social taboo in many circles, many teens (and pre teens) have no problem w vaping. As GNIUS might attest, the lungs are a particularly sensitive route of exposure; and, if delayed onset of symptoms are to be observed in five or ten years (or 20) then the young are at particular risk.

As far as banning? That's a tough one. I hate govt making choices, but I also think that young persons need guidance until they can think outside of the social pressure container. For starters, it would be helpful if vaping would be as socially toxic as smoking.

.
 

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At one time I was thinking that if my kids were considering smoking that they would do vaping instead. Apparently that's not the safe alternative that they were promoting.
 
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23 people have died in the US from vaping. Other than Ebola, what can you think of that has caused less deaths in the US? I’m not saying I think vaping is a good idea, but from what I understand, the big problem is the black market that is being created, where more unknown chemicals are being put in.

I just think it’s interesting that we will talk about how few people are murdered with rifles, but something that causes only a small fraction of the deaths is some major epidemic that needs to be addressed. Meanwhile, people will continue eating McDonald’s, and McDonald’s will continue to catch the attention of our kids to ensure they want to eat the unhealthy food.
We shouldn't forget the history of tobacco use. For a long time, cigarettes were thought to be good for you. From the 30's to the 50's there were cigarette ads with doctors smoking and a lot of doctors did smoke. Even after a solid link to lung cancer was established in the 50's and 60's, not much was done for decades.

The connection of vaping to deadly disease is not full known yet and the phenomenon is still young. We don't actually know how many people have died from vaping and we won't know how many will die for decades. But the signs are there. The comparison with McDonalds is not apt. McDonalds is food. Everyone needs to eat. It is not good food, but it is not poison. No one needs to smoke or vape. And an occasional Big Mac as a treat never hurt anyone.

People should be able to do what they want. But companies making millions marketing poison to children is despicable.
 

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We shouldn't forget the history of tobacco use. For a long time, cigarettes were thought to be good for you. From the 30's to the 50's there were cigarette ads with doctors smoking and a lot of doctors did smoke. Even after a solid link to lung cancer was established in the 50's and 60's, not much was done for decades.

The connection of vaping to deadly disease is not full known yet and the phenomenon is still young. We don't actually know how many people have died from vaping and we won't know how many will die for decades. But the signs are there. The comparison with McDonalds is not apt. McDonalds is food. Everyone needs to eat. It is not good food, but it is not poison. No one needs to smoke or vape. And an occasional Big Mac as a treat never hurt anyone.

People should be able to do what they want. But companies making millions marketing poison to children is despicable.
Has anyone said they believed vaping was healthy? Vaping has been around for a long time. The CDC keeps track of deaths associated with vaping.

Maybe you are right about the comparison between mcdonalds and vaping. Far more people will die from mcdonalds, or other junk food. But just as people need to eat, people need to breathe. Just like people eat and drink things that are unhealthy, people inhale things that are unhealthy.
 

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From the reports I have read it looks like most of the cases are from vapers using black market and THC products in their vapers.
Things that it was never designed to do.
Put crap into your lungs and this is the outcome.
People truly are stupid.
I agree with you 100% People are STUPID.

I was born in a Pub in Lancashire, UK. When I was 4 YOA? I was admitted to the hospital, that I was born in. Whiston Hospital, Merseyside. With some cough related, not too terrible complaint. My Dad received a phone call from the Hospital. Upgrading my illness to Diptheria! And I was transferred to the fever ward. Most died of that in those days. Right in the middle of the Second WW.

My Dad had a Cigarette in his hand, dropped it on the Pub floor, stamped it out, and never smoked a cigarette after that in his life, puffed on his pipe now and again though.

I received my Anti Smoking lesson, at aged not sure what? with my best Buddy Eddie Cullen. I had borrowed (stolen) a packet of Full Strength Capstan cigarets from the Bar. With a pack of matches and the Ciggys, we hid near the Dog Kennel in the large garden, behind the pub.

My Dad (Who would have made an excellent Police Officer) caught us on our first puff, and hack!

"You like smoking aye?" Oh aye, we both said. He much to our dismay, supervised the smoking of three of these unfiltered coffin nails!
That was the last time I ever smoked anything, ever!

Not sure about Eddy, his house was bombed. Before the end of the bombing raids on Liverpool Docks.

Shortly after arriving in Orlando, Dec. 2004. We applied to become Volunteers with Orange County Sheriffs Dept.

We learned of this via something in the local paper. They accepted both of us in this very informative program. We were privy to all kinds of information normal citizens were not (we did not even have our Green Cards then!)

You were given the exact same grilling as a prospective Deputy was given, not a Polygraph.

You sat across a desk from a Deputy. He was facing a Lap Top Computer, I had a Mic fastened to my shirt. He had a Mic in front of his mouth.

Where you were born, those kinds of questions. All ground to a halt "When did you last smoke Pot?" My truthful answer. "I have never smoked Pot" He did not believe me. After he tried to tell me it was OK, as long as I quit that practice after becoming a Volunteer. In 10 different ways! I explained patiently also, I had not, do not, and have never ever smoked anything! Including Pot.

He kind of accepted that. Then crash! It got very hard. Have you ever been in a fight as an adult? He had made a keystroke as he asked the question. My answer YES! Stopped him dead. Fingers flew over the keys, the next question... Have you ever been in a fight where people were injured, or even killed? YES!
"Have you ever used weapons in a fight?" This yes answer had his headset whipped off, big eyes looked at me!

He said where was this all taking place? I told him I was a Bouncer at Night Clubs in Liverpool England, including at The Cavern Club, of Beatles fame, 1960 till 1964. At that venue, I was stabbed twice. My last year, 1965 at The Blue Angel on Seal Street. "Oh" he said, I think he had heard of Liverpool Dock Land Clubs, mayhap he had some knowledge on that part of the British Isles.

After my Bouncing years, we immigrated to Sydney, Australia! My wife and two little kids, we only lasted 3 years there, the wife at that time did not last much longer than that either! I got better at picking Wives! This little Lady has lasted 26 years! She has the patience of Job.
 
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