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Discussion Starter #1
Wearing a cold weather coat and a seatbelt sort of makes
it hard to retrieve a pistol carried in normal fashion , so I
lean towards ALSO having a second "car gun".

Who else here does this , and how/where do you stash it?
And do you sometimes use any type of secure container in your vehicle ?
 

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Here is what I posted in response to a similar question on The High Road

I used to be concerned about my ability to access my weapon while in a vehicle. I always made sure my covering garment went over the seatbelt and I never had an issue. I spent a few hours sitting in my garage and practicing my draw stroke. Of greater concern was striking the steering wheel when addressing a threat on the driver's side.

Over time, I had the opportunity to get some training and to put that training into practice. I had an overseas deployment where there was considerable attention focused on how to deal with a threat when you are in a vehicle. Based on my experience, I am not sure being able to access your firearm in the vehicle is as big a deal as I once thought or everyone seems to believe it to be.

As has already been mentioned, driving out of a problem is generally your best defense when in a vehicle. Leaving yourself enough room to maneuver, adjusting your mirrors properly, locking your doors and remaining alert will provide a greater degree of safety than a special "car-carry" holster. Even the smallest cars have a surprising amount of power that can be used to remove you from a bad situation. I had the opportunity to observe an older chevette push a Ford Expedition about 40' into an intersection from a dead stop. (Both occupants were uninjured.)

If I am in my car and I need to access my weapon, it is probably because my vehicle has been disabled. Exiting said vehicle will be a priority and a pre-requisite of exiting the vehicle would be to remove the seatbelt, eliminating the issue.

Try this:

When entering your vehicle:

1. Lock doors (you have now placed a barrier between you and a potential threat but you retain the ability to access your weapon.)
2. Start vehicle and place in gear (you can now drive away from a problem; this is now your primary method to deal with a threat requiring deadly force)
3. Seatbelt on (restricitng access to your weapon) I frequently put my seatbelt on as I pause to exit the parking lot, not in the parking space.

When exiting your vehicle:

1. Seatbelt off (improving access to my weapon)
2. Vehicle in park, ignition off (weapon is now my primary method to deal with a threat requiring deadly force.)
3. Unlock doors and exit vehicle.
 

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Around here we have a lot of those "Will work for food" guys hanging out at busy intersections. There was a thread about that sort of threat not too long ago and some pretty good information came of it. This mainly came to mind as it was mentioned that in such a situation, it's often difficult to drive off because of traffic.

The routes I normally take have particular hot spots for this sort of activity. When driving I try to position my primary carry as close to 3:00 as possible - so it's not behind me or trapped by the seatbelt. My draw isn't quite as fluid as if standing but it doesn't lack much. Coat and/or cover shirt is open and my seatbelt passes UNDER the strong side of the garments.

Since my current primary weapon is a J-frame, I also have the option of carrying in my coat pocket. Assuming the Walther/P99 in your avatar is your primary, that may not be an option for you unless you also carry a BUG.
Jack
 

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I have not often added an extra - tho SP-101 will at times ''live'' in the center console box for some journies.

For most part it is my regular carry that is ''it'' - and when I get in and buckle up - this is moved to 3 o'clock or more fwd - my coat is undone and open past the belt - this means even tho a shade slow and awkward I can draw. I make sure of this before I start a journey.

I would also tho in some city areas, actually have removed the piece to keep it between legs for faster access.
 

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I use the center console in my "Jimmy" also. I use it more often than on long jouneys.
It does feel funny to ask pasengers, not to use as an arm-rest.
 

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No second weapon in the car for me, and I don't like the idea of anything (carrier, holster, safe) permanantly attached anywhere in the vehicle.

That said, I use a Wilderness Safepacker which is removeable and secure as it's designed to velcro on the front strap (see pics in link) of your seatbelt-ready for quick utilization, but hidden in plain sight too.

http://thewilderness.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2/products_id/18

A bit spendy, but it works well. YMMV.

Chris
 

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I tell ya what I do... I wear either a down bubble vest and stash my model 37 SW in the pocket or I wear a parka and put it in my pocket in that coat. Yes, bigger guns provide more rounds and stopping power and aaccuracy, but if you practice and a small .38 such as a model 37 or 642 is the perfect all around gun for CCW. Its small and compact and you can stay warm in your big coats and still be able to pull the pistol out of your pocket. I had said that I would return to the 1911 during the winter months. Well, no chance its too big and I can get to it and stay warm at the same time. My 2cents. I chose versatility over size.
 

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OK, I drive a Miata, wanna make something of it. :smile:

Anyway, the seats in that car a very tight against the transmission tunnel. I just stick my pistol muzzle down between the seat and the carpeted tunnel and have a small towel I drape over it. Easy access, and the gun has yet to move under even the most spirited driving.
 

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I shared all of the above with my 26 year old daughter who lives alone in a metro area (Denver) and only carries OC. She works long hours downtown, and often walks to her car alone. I'm working on developing her "Con Level" sensitivity, and this was another opportunity to share ideas with her. She's pretty good in most cases (six plus years of competitive martial arts), but still "only" 26. All great ideas. Thank you. :wave:
 

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Be c areful about carrying in the car in Denver without a CHL. They've had some court cases trying to restrict firearms more so than Colorado state law does, even tho the state law states in black and white that local govt's can't do that.

The court has upheld the state law over Denver's restrictions in almost all cases, but it could be expensive for the individuals involved.
 

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Former "victims" make the best sheepdogs

Rock and Glock said:
(six plus years of competitive martial arts), but still "only" 26.
Competition martial arts? Any real world encounters? Find out right quick what really works on the street. For that matter has she ever been victimized in any way...even a burglary of the family (your) home?
 

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I have yet to really sit down, and work out the kinks of using the map pocket on the back of the passenger seat. I dose have some draw backs like getting your arm around to the back of the seat if it is all the way back. With out feeling like you are going to break your arm. If you have short arms, and a large vehicle it could be a stretch. And how to hold the weapon towards the top of the pocket.

I am glad I live in Colorado Springs, and don't travel much in Denver like tanksolider. The more restrictive laws in Denver are over the top in my mind.
 

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I find there are two methods of comfortable concealed carry in a vehicle and retaining the ability to present...if you have the sequence down.

Strong side hip (either IWB or OWB). The gun seems to nestle in the hollow area of the small of the back. If you need to draw, you lean forward slightly and grasp as normal. Slide the weapon from the holster and sweep it horizontally until you tap the steering wheel with the barrel or slide. At that point, use the outside rim of the wheel as a guide to bring the gun over the top and then transition to a semi-retention grip high and close to the chest. Hopefully your gun has no comp! In this position the muzzle is naturally pointed at the threat.

The second method of presentation is a variation of the first but avoids the steering wheel entirely and brings the presentation up directly to the chest. The moves are by necessity very angular and short. Almost jerky. Draw up from the strong side, elbow moving vertically when gunbarrel is next to the ribcage, bring elbow down and pivot gun barrel up, moving "around the corner" of your body, keeping the muzzle forward by a scant inch or two and bring firing hand into solid two handed grip as in the previous model.

As with any sort of draw technique, this one must be practiced to build muscle memory and flow.
 

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AKsrule said:
Wearing a cold weather coat and a seatbelt sort of makes
it hard to retrieve a pistol carried in normal fashion , so I
lean towards ALSO having a second "car gun".

Who else here does this , and how/where do you stash it?
And do you sometimes use any type of secure container in your vehicle ?
My buddy used to keep a Ruger Super Single Six S.A. .22WMR in the little notch area between the transmission hum of his Ford F250 4x4 and the bottom edge of the front seat. There was just enough room to wedge the gun in tightly but allow for a smooth draw. Too bad...when the truck got stolen while we were in college, guess what else they got??? That's the problem with a truck gun unless you take it whenever you leave the truck. I'd lean toward having a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 folding carbine in 40S&W. Keep a couple of Glock aftermarket hi-cap mags with 29rds and you'd have a fine little fistfull of dynamite. Inexpensive, too.
 

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ExSoldier762 said:
Competition martial arts? Any real world encounters? Find out right quick what really works on the street. For that matter has she ever been victimized in any way...even a burglary of the family (your) home?

ExSoldier762: Good point, Sir. When I reread my original post, I realized I should have inserted a period or two in that run-on-sentence. What I meant was that for a 26 year old female, she does think about "security" ("pretty good"), not that her "six years" of martial arts would suffice or be "pretty good". My mistake, Sir. She does think about safety in the downtown parking garage, at her condo, and other types of situations (i.e. "pretty good") In my mind, she is unprepared more often than not, and that is why I pursue coaching opportunities when available. Its also why she carries the OC I bought her. I am still trying to interest her in pistols, though.

As a matter of background, she was ready to test for her first level black belt when a broken ankle interrupted, followed by the "demands" (academic and social:danceban: ) of college. She competed at the US Nationals for five years prior to that, under the TKD NGO. She won the national title in sparring two years running in her weight and age class. During local and regional events (sanctioned, refereed, umpired and judged), she broke one competitors femur (through the protective pads), and another competitors jaw (through the helmet padding). The training she underwent was full-blown fighting training, with full contact using appropriate protective gear.

Now, we both know, in the real world that doesn't count for very darn much.:embarassed: What she did have, however, was the retained muscle memory two years later, when upon exiting the Paris Metro late at night, three Parisian teenagers accosted and attempted a molestation, purse snatching or worse. The ferocity of her attacks against the three resulted in three battered and bleeding boys in the gutter, while she ran to a nearby hotel. Later examination (and a great souvenir), showed she had nearly flattened the band of a ring worn on her right ring finger against one of the boys face.:image035:

Other real world encounters have been non-existent as far as I know.:frown: None with her family. We have traveled a lot in lesser developed countries, and I was constantly the embarrassing/stupid/boring dad warning her about the BG's, BG scenarios, etc.

I digress, but I did want to let you know more of the facts, and correct my inadvertent butchering of the English language.

Even now, with her 26, I still try to gently prod her into maintaining a higher alert level when I think appropriate. She does stay aware most of the time, and stays away from dark parking lots, etc., but, she's my first-born, and I still worry sometimes. :tumbleweed: Feels pretty natural.....
 

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Here in Ohio the law currently requires that carry be "in a holster, on your person, in plain sight." That eliminates anything fastened to the seatbelt, and anything hidden under a garment. Currently I've been wearing a fanny pack at 9 o'clock, that I can unzip while driving, and zip up whe I get out of the car. Does it meet the "in plain sight" requirement? I think so, but I don't want to be the test case. I have a "carjacker crossdraw" on order, that will go around my belt at 12 o'clock. Once I have that, I figure on switching the gun to a concealed holster at 4 o'clock when I get out of the car.
 

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Lethal Weapon?

Rock and Glock said:
ExSoldier762: Good point, Sir. As a matter of background, she was ready to test for her first level black belt when a broken ankle interrupted, followed by the "demands" (academic and social:danceban: ) of college. She competed at the US Nationals for five years prior to that, under the TKD NGO. She won the national title in sparring two years running in her weight and age class.
The smart play is to NEVER get the Blackbelt! If she does and she uses it, it better be a lethal force situation, because if it's not she'll be facing the exact same charges as if she'd used a firearm. In this case, SHE becomes the weapon. Sounds like a Hollywood script, but it's the truth. I'd rather get the training to advance thru the belts, just not officially testing and getting it documented....
 

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I would rather just wear the gun. If you get in an accident or have to exit , the pistol styas with you. Also, in violent collisions loose objects become missles.
 

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ExSoldier762 said:
The smart play is to NEVER get the Blackbelt! If she does and she uses it, it better be a lethal force situation, because if it's not she'll be facing the exact same charges as if she'd used a firearm. In this case, SHE becomes the weapon. Sounds like a Hollywood script, but it's the truth. I'd rather get the training to advance thru the belts, just not officially testing and getting it documented....
Never thought of it that way! She's pursuing her career now, rather than belts, but I'll give her a "Heads Up" to avoid the belts and documentation but get the training! Great advice! Thanks!
 
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