[10thmtn]

In essence, he is advocating a modified zipper drill, or you can look at it as a modified Mozambique "failure to stop" drill. This is very close to how I practice. Shoot high center chest, and then work up (with the recoil) to the head, if necessary.

This tactic renders concerns over caliber and bullet type moot. It also maximizes the probability of hitting the CNS.

 

[Harryball]

We want the target to stop what they are doing. He is correct in that. The problem is that a lot of time we do not have the most stationary target to hit. Shoot the COM of visible mass. A heart shot will end the guy in about 30 secs, and lung shot will take longer. He again is correct in the fact that the guy could continue to fight, and our goal is to stop them. The CNS hit is a sure way of stopping someone and ending the fight.

 

[Mike1956]

We want the target to stop what they are doing. He is correct in that. The problem is that a lot of time we do not have the most stationary target to hit. Shoot the COM of visible mass. A heart shot will end the guy in about 30 secs, and lung shot will take longer. He again is correct in the fact that the guy could continue to fight, and our goal is to stop them. The CNS hit is a sure way of stopping someone and ending the fight.

That part is often misunderstood or overlooked.

 

[Bad Bob]

I am not "zipping" anyone. If I have to shoot someone I am firing for effect. My carry gun, a factory comped Glock 357 Sig has no recoil to ride.

 

[bill35738]

A glock 18 would mean auto zippering? Right?

 

[msgt/ret]

We want the target to stop what they are doing. He is correct in that. The problem is that a lot of time we do not have the most stationary target to hit. Shoot the COM of visible mass. A heart shot will end the guy in about 30 secs, and lung shot will take longer. He again is correct in the fact that the guy could continue to fight, and our goal is to stop them. The CNS hit is a sure way of stopping someone and ending the fight.

I have to agree with this, it’s like hunting that buck is not going to stand perfectly still presenting the perfect broadside target. By the same token when the lead starts flying the bad guy is not going to stand there while you shoot at him. If I remember right in the Miami shootout one of the bad guys was taken out by a LEO dropping to the ground then shooting the criminals ankles, when he went down the LEO ended the fight with a few shots to COM.

 

[Harryball]

I have to agree with this, it’s like hunting that buck is not going to stand perfectly still presenting the perfect broadside target. By the same token when the lead starts flying the bad guy is not going to stand there while you shoot at him. If I remember right in the Miami shootout one of the bad guys was taken out by a LEO dropping to the ground then shooting the criminals ankles, when he went down the LEO ended the fight with a few shots to COM.

Exactly...

I respect John and follow his teachings, but we must remember the context of the warrior and pull information we can use, and ignore information that does not apply...

 

[G-man*]

Hit'em hard and hit'em often.

 

[10thmtn]

I am not "zipping" anyone. If I have to shoot someone I am firing for effect. My carry gun, a factory comped Glock 357 Sig has no recoil to ride.

How is what he is teaching NOT firing for effect? It's more effective than continuing to shoot COM when those shots don't get the timely results we need...which is exactly what we often see happen under stress. It's why we read of felons shot 27 times before they're finally stopped.

The spine is a hard target to hit, depending on how the target is turned. This technique increases the odds of hitting it on the way up to the head. Didn't hear him say it was guaranteed.

Whether your gun has recoil or not is moot. You can still fire as you bring the gun up to the head.

 

[SatCong]

I am not "zipping" anyone. If I have to shoot someone I am firing for effect. My carry gun, a factory comped Glock 357 Sig has no recoil to ride.

Love it, don't play games.

 

[Bad Bob]

How is what he is teaching NOT firing for effect? It's more effective than continuing to shoot COM when those shots don't get the timely results we need...which is exactly what we often see happen under stress. It's why we read of felons shot 27 times before they're finally stopped.

The spine is a hard target to hit, depending on how the target is turned. This technique increases the odds of hitting it on the way up to the head. Didn't hear him say it was guaranteed.

Whether your gun has recoil or not is moot. You can still fire as you bring the gun up to the head.

If I put 2-3 high chest and get no results I am going for a head shot. I use the golden triangle nose to nipple.

 

[AzQkr]

Been teaching the zipper in the courses for a decade. But the zipper starts with the 1/2 hip shot, moving through the 3/4 hip and point shoulder positions and the 4th shot the head shot at eye level/full extension. Thus it's reserved for up close and personal from 10 or closer.

 

[G-man*]

I once played poker with a group of guys...

We had this one dude, who would match every up, even if he had a poor hand.
He was always the first one out of money because he would rather go broke than be outdone.

A lot of forum banter goes like that.

 

[Bad Bob]

Been teaching the zipper in the courses for a decade. But the zipper starts with the 1/2 hip shot, moving through the 3/4 hip and point shoulder positions and the 4th shot the head shot at eye level/full extension. Thus it's reserved for up close and personal from 10 or closer.

I don't hip shoot, unless it is from retention @ very close distances.

 

[farsidefan1]

We want the target to stop what they are doing. He is correct in that. The problem is that a lot of time we do not have the most stationary target to hit. Shoot the COM of visible mass. A heart shot will end the guy in about 30 secs, and lung shot will take longer. He again is correct in the fact that the guy could continue to fight, and our goal is to stop them. The CNS hit is a sure way of stopping someone and ending the fight.

HARRY, Good to see you in here. We enjoy your takes, welcome back :danceban:

Excellent point. If someone shots at me I have every intention of moving to cover. Or at them but I'm moving somewhere. I assume others will pretty much do the same. Kind of hard to make a nice zipper.

 

[10thmtn]

I watched half the video.....:rofl:The guy is a tool..... What is with the 4 stars? is he a retired General? He is teaching poor technique, aim at a less than optimum target and let the recoil bring you to com? If you can hit where you want at will why start low? That encourages bad form. I have seen guys in shootouts draw like they are bowling and their first shots are always in the dirt in front of them.

Watch the whole thing.

Aw, never mind. You obviously know everything.

 

[Bad Bob]

Watch the whole thing.

Aw, never mind. You obviously know everything.

Now you are being obtuse. Shoot however you want. Just don't be butthurt when everyone does not bow to the latest utube hero. Everytime I see "zippering" someone I think "amateur hour". If you are going for the head, just go for the head. Why waste time and ammo on a low percentage shot, granted he starts his zipper higher at the end. Teaching to ride the recoil is problematic, if you ever shot an automatic weapon and rode the recoil you would not hit anything and be dangerous and out of control.

 

[BadgerJ]

Many thanks to the OP for posting the video with John McPhee. I've since looked at his other training vids and I think he stands out as one of the top trainers in the sense that he breaks it down in a way that is technical and meaningful. Look beyond his 'colorful appearance' and you'll find a lot of good ideas. He uses very modern methods and unlike other trainers, he's direct, clear and succinct.

Check the Youtube sidebar for his other videos.

 

[CR Williams]

I am not "zipping" anyone. If I have to shoot someone I am firing for effect. My carry gun, a factory comped Glock 357 Sig has no recoil to ride.

'Zippering' is firing for effect.

 

[CR Williams]

That did happen at the--North?--Hollywood bank robbery, the one where they guys had almost full-coverage body armor. One was brought to ground by a SWAT guy shooting him from the other side of a car in the foot or ankle.