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PD spokesperson claims investigation was slowed due to multiple Walmart shoppers who drew personal firearms in response to the active shooter.
Big fat whoop! :rolleyes:

My official response to that statement is "I obey forum rules", because my true thoughts would get me a bunch of infraction points.

Not like a off-duty LEO in civilian cloths wouldn't cause the same confusion.
 
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Here's an interesting development. Denver PD spokesperson claims investigation was slowed due to multiple Walmart shoppers who drew personal firearms in response to the active shooter.
Well, maybe it was slowed, but those people also went home to their families that night.

"Although authorities said “a few” individuals drew handguns, they posed no physical hazard to officers. But their presence “absolutely” slowed the process of determining who, and how many, suspects were involved in the shootings, said Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila."

Armed Walmart shoppers slowed police in shooting investigation
No physical hazard to officers. No physical hazard to to the gunman, LOL. Nobody returned fire. Nobody reacted in any sort of timely manner to provide any sort of aid.

I did notice that this random public shooting of strangers happened in a NON gun-free zone.
 

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Here's an interesting development. Denver PD spokesperson claims investigation was slowed due to multiple Walmart shoppers who drew personal firearms in response to the active shooter.
Well, maybe it was slowed, but those people also went home to their families that night.

"Although authorities said “a few” individuals drew handguns, they posed no physical hazard to officers. But their presence “absolutely” slowed the process of determining who, and how many, suspects were involved in the shootings, said Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila."

Armed Walmart shoppers slowed police in shooting investigation
I saw that too but I'll bet that the armed citizens felt a lot better having guns on them when the shooting started.
 

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No physical hazard to officers. No physical hazard to to the gunman, LOL. Nobody returned fire. Nobody reacted in any sort of timely manner to provide any sort of aid.

I did notice that this random public shooting of strangers happened in a NON gun-free zone.
Do you mean that it was in a guns allowed zone then?
 

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I did notice that this random public shooting of strangers happened in a NON gun-free zone.
Do you mean that it was in a guns allowed zone then?
Actually, yes. Around here, signs do not have FOL, and Walmarts aren't posted, anyway. I've seen one or two open carriers in the closest one to me from time to time.
 

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First lesson: Have a means to fight back!

By sheer coincidence, I just help my sister-in-law buy her first carry pistol a mere hour or two before this happened. And they (her, my brother, and their kids) live in Thornton! It's entirely possible that they could have been there any other day.
 

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I laughed when the reporter said "we asked the Police spokesperson why it took them 5 hours to give us an update" LOL Shut up you idiot!!! It's not about YOU and YOUR story, the cops did what they had to do. They don't have an obligation to update the media in any capacity. Their sworn duty is to protect the community, which they did. IMO

I bet the armed citizens inside are glad they didn't have to discharge their firearms. The story would have been about THEM instead.

I'm not connecting this to the event in NYC. I'm not giving this dirtbag that much credit. Pretty sure he's not in cahoots with Syed-al-shabadaba-hussein Shamashamahama and ISIS. Just a pathetic individual that decided to hurt people.
 

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Do you mean that it was in a guns allowed zone then?
Yeah Tom, so guy walked in to a "guns allowed zone" and shot up a bunch of people and nobody in the guns allowed zone with guns did a single thing about it despite the fact that apparently a bunch of them had guns, so much so that it hindered police response, but didn't hinder the shooter. He walked out like he walked in. Far too many people have the misguided belief that concealed or open carry legality will stop crime because criminals are afraid of people with guns and when it is concealed carry, that the criminals are afraid because they don't know who is armed. It really doesn't work like that at all. Criminals are going to be criminals whether the general public has guns or not. This is a great example.

People always make a big deal about how all these shootings purportedly happen in GFZs. In reality, lots don't and this is just another one of them. Walmart allows people to carry in their stores around the country so long as it complies with local laws.
 

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Here's an interesting development. Denver PD spokesperson claims investigation was slowed due to multiple Walmart shoppers who drew personal firearms in response to the active shooter.
Well, maybe it was slowed, but those people also went home to their families that night.

"Although authorities said “a few” individuals drew handguns, they posed no physical hazard to officers. But their presence “absolutely” slowed the process of determining who, and how many, suspects were involved in the shootings, said Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila."

Armed Walmart shoppers slowed police in shooting investigation
Well what do you expect in the middle of the local Defensive Carry Club meeting!

Seriously, I would not draw my gun and hold it up. Rather I would hold it down by my side to minimize its presence until I had a better idea of the threat and where it was.
 

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Yeah Tom, so guy walked in to a "guns allowed zone" and shot up a bunch of people and nobody in the guns allowed zone with guns did a single thing about it despite the fact that apparently a bunch of them had guns, so much so that it hindered police response, but didn't hinder the shooter. He walked out like he walked in. Far too many people have the misguided belief that concealed or open carry legality will stop crime because criminals are afraid of people with guns and when it is concealed carry, that the criminals are afraid because they don't know who is armed. It really doesn't work like that at all. Criminals are going to be criminals whether the general public has guns or not. This is a great example.

People always make a big deal about how all these shootings purportedly happen in GFZs. In reality, lots don't and this is just another one of them. Walmart allows people to carry in their stores around the country so long as it complies with local laws.
I get what you're saying and I agree and disagree.

First off, we have about 1/10 of the story. We don't know, for example, if someone else with a firearm happened to cause the guy to leave the store. He sees a gun so he turns around and walks away. Any usage (from deadly force to simply a display) of a firearm that ends the threat is a successful encounter. I'd highly suggest that we all wait until we have some more facts before we decided what did or did not happen within the details.

Colorado cops saying that the concealed carriers caused a significant delay is mostly a political load of horse manure. They knew who the shooter was within a brief period of time and caught him, quite literally, as fast as they were going to. If some responding cop had spent time apprehending a concealed carrier while the real shooter walked right by, then they'd have some kind of legitimate gripe. That, by all accounts, isn't what happened. The fact that some guy had to review an extra half hour of video because a couple of people pulled a gun to defend themselves isn't anywhere near as difficult to flesh out unless they're just plain terrible at being cops...
 

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When the police arrive at the scene they're pretty much clueless. They don't know how long the guy planned this, if he has accomplices, if he perhaps set up traps around exits, etc. So for post cleanup (what the police mostly do) I can see how it would be a headache, but really no bigger headache than usual as they would need to scan all the videos and check for accomplices regardless.

I'm guessing that journalists who are provably almost entirely leftist are going to find any way to twist this to their agenda.
 

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This is a hard one, I was listening to the journalist vultures covering this on the drive back from church wednesday with my daughter (I live in the Denver area).

In the unlikely event you get face to face contact with a shooter, my first gut reaction would be to find cover and draw at the same time. Hopefully you survive and hopefully the guy gets pinned down and stops his murder spree.

The more likely event is what to do if you are somewhere else in the store when the guy opens up. I know I wouldn't want to be identified as the shooter. With several folks reportedly drawing upon hearing the firing, at that point any real hope of reasonably getting involved is gone as the line between good and bad guy just got really fuzzy.

For being able to draw quickly: yeah that's a big deal.
As for caliber? I think that probaby doesn't matter much really.

Now I do sometimes carry a block 20. I think I'm going to buy some fort scott munitions copper 10mm as they can penetrate level IIIA body armor. That would be a very appropriate load for church as long as it doesn't blow up the pistol. The problem is: how do you properly deep conceal a block 20 ? If the church wasn't in Denver city limits I might not be asking that....
 

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Depends.(hope I am wearing em) :embarassed: No seriously, If I can escape I will. If not well....hopefully my training kicks in because that's "where the rubber meets the road" so to speak. I would not want to have a gunfight in a crowded WalMart. Too much background.
 

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Walmart shooting: Suspect accused of killing 3 in Colorado has been arrested - CNN

I thought this worthy of discussion. What can be learned from this.

I suppose one's options depend a lot on the scenario. Standing in the same line, next lane over, in-store but in sight of the shooter.

It has caused me to think about how fast one can draw and shoot, that standing two lanes over I'd be better off with a revolver in an easy access hoster than a semi with a manual safety that I currently pocket carry.

One would have to draw and shoot pretty damn fast if a dirtbag starts randomly shooting nearby....
That is always the case.

Understanding one's own abilities beforehand is critical in determining and executing a course of action in an actual situation. If one doesn't know how to effectively execute a gun disarm, going for the gun is probably a bad plan. If one has a three-second draw from concealment, going against the drop isn't wise.

"What should I do if..." can only be addressed by knowing what one is capable of beforehand.
 

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Darlene Jackson, a truck driver, said she was in the toy section of the store when she heard the gunshots. She later heard that people other than the shooter had guns, but they did not confront the killer.
“Why wouldn’t they draw their guns and shoot him?” she said.
-- Because they aren't cops and knew about the time a GG tried to shoot the BG and the BG's girlfriend shot and killed him? The whole idea is get you and your loved ones to safety only using the gun if you have to.
-- Jackson said she owns a gun but didn’t have it with her at the time. :embarassed: She said she and her husband are going to a shooting range to practice firing the weapon.
 
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Possible motive I heard yesterday came from one of the shooters neighbors-apparently he "disliked Hispanics" & all three victims were.
 

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Yeah Tom, so guy walked in to a "guns allowed zone" and shot up a bunch of people and nobody in the guns allowed zone with guns did a single thing about it despite the fact that apparently a bunch of them had guns, so much so that it hindered police response, but didn't hinder the shooter. He walked out like he walked in. Far too many people have the misguided belief that concealed or open carry legality will stop crime because criminals are afraid of people with guns and when it is concealed carry, that the criminals are afraid because they don't know who is armed. It really doesn't work like that at all. Criminals are going to be criminals whether the general public has guns or not. This is a great example.

People always make a big deal about how all these shootings purportedly happen in GFZs. In reality, lots don't and this is just another one of them. Walmart allows people to carry in their stores around the country so long as it complies with local laws.
The guy walked in, shot three people at the checkout area, and walked out. He did not linger or roam about the store. Criticizing the armed citizens for not shooting him is unfounded, as their time or spatial ability to respond was extremely limited. According to the bumbling Thornton PD, two to five armed citizens made their presence known either in person with LEO post event or being seen on video with a drawn weapon- not "a bunch of them". There were probably more, like an armed guy in Automotive who hears some shots at the front of the store, prudently heads out the back or side door, and does NOT draw his weapon.
 
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One thing I believe in is always having your firearm in a carry state/holster that you can quickly draw from using muscle memory and clothing that allows it. Ive even given up my pocket holsters and shoulder holsters pretty much and carry almost 100% of the time strong side belt even if its a little .380.

Mind you I still agree that just having the gun on you is pretty good preparedness but even in summer its really not a problem for me to wear a light, loose shirt to conceal my weapon. Also Ive started carrying my G19 more instead of my G43 and am seriously considering a 10mm. I work a part time now near where I used to work when I was on the street and its not the best of 'hoods. Anyway my instincts have been telling me to upgun. My .45s are just to heavy for my old hips.
I have a g43 and a G17. I've also been thinking about 10mm. What's making you lean towards it?
 
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