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Wayne’s World Is Crumbling

5K views 45 replies 26 participants last post by  Pocketgunner 
#1 ·
#3 ·
This isn't news. Perhaps the best that will come out of this is new leadership.

But don't take your eye off the ball. And that ball is the dissolution of a political organization when the alleged bad actors should be punished.

So stand up and back the NRA, don't stand around a whine. You can fix the leadership later.
 
#5 ·
Personally I've given up on the NRA. I never trusted the organization enough to become a life member, but still have an active membership from paying up several years worth rather than pay for gun show entry fees. I've voted and sent letters and emails. Neither Wayne nor the Board of Directors care what a mere member has to say. Further, the BoD is collectively complicit in Wayne's World.

Simply replacing leadership is not a viable COA at this point. New leadership would merely replicate Wayne's World and be more skillful at flying under the radar while remaining ineffective at advocating for 2A rights. No thanks.
 
#6 ·
One thing I do not agree with in the article is his premise that the NY AG should not seek to dissolve the whole organization, but just punish the offenders. I would agree with that if this was the first shot over the bow, but this has been going on for a couple of years and the NRA leadership has not done the right thing. So the organization is showing itself as being an organization that cannot represent its members properly. Even though the NY AG is doing this for political purposes doesn't mean she is wrong.

There are things that the NRA should have done a long time ago and everyone knew it:
  • Get rid of WLP. No matter what he is, or is not, guilty of, there is reason for the members to no longer have confidence in him. I refuse to believe that the effectiveness of the whole organization rests on him personally. If that were true, why do we need the whole organization? Just hire him as a solo lobbyist. But of course that is not true.
  • Reform the board. As the article says, 76 board members is way out of whack. I think it is a way WLP keeps control. With that many board members, he can keep a broad base of support and no single board member, or small group of board members, can wield significant power against him.
  • "Move" the non-profit registration to another state, like Texas as Trump suggested. The problem for WLP, is it appears NY State law doesn't permit you to just move a non-profit and jus moving does not get you out of NY's clutches. It appears that the NRA would have to create an entirely new non-profit in another state, then merge the NY entity into that new state entity, and they dissolve the old organization. The new entity may or may not have Wayne as the CEO and have 76 board members. It would be started from scratch. And to completely get out of NY's clutches, it would have to stop doing business in NY. So no NY members or programs.
The current NRA seems incapable of doing thosd obvious things. And there are a whole list of other things they would be well advised to be doing differently also.

This suit could be a good thing. It could force WLP out and force the creation of a new NRA organization from scratch. If it does, I will go back to supporting the NRA in word and deed and I think I am not alone.
 
#9 ·
I used to, but I gave up on it. It does no good. As I said before, just because the AG is politically motivated doesn't mean she's wrong. And there is no chance of getting "played" by the AG. We have no influence on what she does, so whether we believe her or not is irrelevant. I had written the organization off long before she got involved.
 
#8 ·
Good article, says what the mass of the membership has been saying for years - remove WLP. That's not enough now. Clearly, the membership means nothing to the leadership. They may have been effective years ago; they are not now. The leadership is complicit in all that's going on, even if it's only ineffectual representation. Here's another place we need to drain the swamp.
 
#17 ·
With all due respect, I have limited time and resources. Those aren't going to be used to extend the reign of King Wayne and his court. If the organization, service to gun owners, and the 2A meant more to them than their own pockets they'd have listened to NRA member inputs long ago, and would have resigned their leadership posts by now.

If others wish to continue supporting the NRA, I truly wish you good luck. But what I see is an organization that's doubled down on protecting corrupt and self serving parasites rather than fixing problems. There's no need for my loyalty because the other half abandoned me long ago.

Honestly, I do try to live the Air Force core values (integrity first, service before self, and excellence in we do); associating with and defending an organization that seemingly operates contrary to each of those values would put me in an untenable position with my own ethics.
 
#15 ·
All of this came to light nearly 18 months ago. And the only thing the top brass have done is solidify their positions!
While the NY AG is only making things difficult for the NRA for political reasons, it doesn't make her allegations any less true.
18 months ago Wayne was trying to make the NRA build him and his family a 25 million dollar house! So in the time since what has changed?
Other Non Profits have gone through this too. For them to survive they had to purge the guilty management and get back to there core values.
But that won't happen till the guilty are removed. DR
 
#18 · (Edited)
I hate to see an organization like the NRA go away. For decades it's been a defender of the 2A, gun safety and great information.

Clearly it needs new leadership and re-organization but that can be done without dissolving it.

If the Liberals win this one, they will be even bolder going after gun ownership. We can't let that happen.
 
#19 ·
The NRA is far from perfect, but as of this minute, it's still our best organization to fight the Libs for our 2nd Amendment rights. Hopefully the NRA does some house cleaning, but I will still support them. As a native New Yorker and retired LEO from NYC, I learned a long time ago that Letitia James is a political hack that lies every time her lips move. She is definitely not a friend of Law Enforcement or the 2nd Amendment and her thoughts and actions are directed by Gov Cuomo.---Sturgis
 
#20 ·
The end of the NRA as a political entity and the abolition of Second Amendment rights is the agenda here, not making crooked things straight in Fairfax. Rag on Wayne all you like, enjoy the schadenfruede as it comes, but understand that if the NRA goes, so do most of the concealed carry certification instructors in the entire country.
 
#21 ·
The end of the NRA as a political entity and the abolition of Second Amendment rights is the agenda here, not making crooked things straight in Fairfax. Rag on Wayne all you like, enjoy the schadenfruede as it comes, but understand that if the NRA goes, so do most of the concealed carry certification instructors in the entire country.
I don’t know why anyone would enjoy the trouble that Wayne had brought the organization, other than Wayne himself. At least not if you value gun rights.

I think people are tired of donating money to an organization with as little oversight as the NRA. And those of us who have complained have not gotten anywhere. Wayne is still there, their board still has an abysmal voting record (many members don’t vote), and it’s full of Wayne’s cronies or people only there because of their name.

I think there’s something morally wrong with the guy (Wayne). He’s either a sociopath or just plain crooked. But what is the excuse for the other 70 some odd board members? What is Charles Cotton’s excuse? What about Meadows?

I don’t enjoy any of this. I’ve invested a lot of money in that organization. At least enough to buy Wayne a tie or two.
 
#25 ·
BTW, I think it is nearly impossible that there will not continue to be some pro-gun organization called, "The NRA." It will always exist in some form, registered as a non-profit in some state. No matter what the NY AG does, a work around would be too easy to arrange somewhere else. So everyone's stickers, ball caps and other SWAG will still be good.

Here are the real questions. To have the NRA we want, an NRA that preserves the RTKABA, do we need:
  • WLP?
  • The big building in Fairfax?
  • The museum?
  • The range?
  • The NRA Wine Club?
  • NRA Carry Guard?
  • Bad training courses?
  • The dumb, industry shilling publications?
  • The constant fear-mongering appeals for more money?
  • An organization that supports red flag?
  • An organization who is so publicly chummy with Trump? (I am a Trump supporter and it even makes me nervous.)
I think an NRA without all that would be ideal.
 
#34 ·
BTW, I think it is nearly impossible that there will not continue to be some pro-gun organization called, "The NRA." It will always exist in some form, registered as a non-profit in some state. No matter what the NY AG does, a work around would be too easy to arrange somewhere else. So everyone's stickers, ball caps and other SWAG will still be good.
....
I think an NRA without all that would be ideal.
To countenance a dissolution and reconstitution in another form is a complete capitulation to the NY AG and leftists.
 
#27 ·
There are a few vectors at work here.

First, I have voiced the not-as-loquacious opinion as the posted letter. I have told leftist friends (who couldn't care less about NRA members) that individuals guilty of fraud should be punished. The membership should not. If the organization exists for criminal activity (a front, ponzi, money laundering, etc) the organization should be dissolved. I point out organizations that had individual leaders embezzle money (YMCA, Salvation Army, Planned Parenthood). My position is that the sate is overreaching when it goes beyond punishing bad actors and moves to dissolve a legitimate private organization. My example was, what happens when Trump and Barr come for your private organization because the president defrauded membership? But leftists focus on group liability rather than individual liability.

Second, I believe that the NRA is using scare tactics to get gun owner support. The board should right the ship, but they are using member $$ to fight for fraud. The Obama era saying is "too big to fail". But the free market thinker says, "to big to last". If the NRA is removed, it might free up membership and $$ for SAF or GOA. Best case scenario, this prunes the infected limbs and allows the NRA to heal, stronger.

Charging individuals for individual crimes is just. The AG dissolving organizations with which she politically disagrees is corrupt.
 
#28 ·
Yeah but imagine what a force for good the NRA could be if their power wasn't corrupted. Hard to wield any influence if nobody believes in you. Isn't honet representation what gun owners want ? Wayne needs to walk the talk.
Wayne will lose that multi million dollar home, those instructors can survive to instruct again.
 
#29 ·
Near as I can tell this has been a problem with the NRA since the early 80's. Nothing has been done to correct it. So why should I continue to renew my membership or donate money to an organization that misuses a significant amount of the money it collects? The NRA has done some good things but I'm not happy that they are more interested in sporting and hunting than in taking a hard stance against all the infringements. I don't see the NRA or any politician as staunch supporters of the 2A.
 
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#32 ·
I think the "icing on the cake" of the NRA needs to be scraped off and get the cake down to its baked core to see if it is still edible. Too many at the top are enjoying the icing while never tasting the cake that is left over for the rest of its members.
 
#33 ·
They,(NRA Leadership) dug the hole, and they expect members to keep from filling it by scare tactics and a shell game of money laundering. This, from the article says it all>>>>
The picture that emerged, again, solely from my opinionated viewpoint, is that of a tin-pot dictator trying desperately to stay in power. Every month I get NRA publications, and while the quality of the writing of the technical articles in Shooting Illustrated and American Rifleman are good, the editorial content is simply more re-written crap from the last five years.
Democrats are bad
The government’s coming for your guns.
Send us your money and we’ll fight for you.
Wash, rinse, repeat. I’m sure if you did a computer comparison article to article of the last 20 columns by Wayne, you’d find the same hackneyed phrases and overused adjectives in each of them. When you bang the drum to lead the march, you have to make sure you’re in step with the marchers. Wayne’s been out of step for a really long time. And he can’t play the drums, either.,,, AND>>> But the structure of the NRA, that was set up when a bunch of gun-control losers tried to take control, prevents our votes from counting and ensures the election of pro-Wayne board members. Marion Hammer, one of the past presidents of the NRA is on record saying “the NRA is not looking for new leadership. We have an outstanding, super-qualified, selfless, dedicated Second Amendment-to-the-bone Leader. And that is not likely to change until way off in the distant future.” Pay no attention to the fact that payments to Marion were flagged in the lawsuit itself. END<<<<<
 
#36 ·
The NRA needs to go back to it's original reason for existing.
To promote marksmanship and gun safety.
Only other thing they should be doing is strictly protecting 2nd amendment rights. Period.
Get rid of all the superfluous stuff. It does not need a huge board of directors. Or people becoming ultra rich running the place.
 
#40 ·
I don't know how many other states are like Texas, but being an LTC Instructor has nothing whatsoever to do with any affiliation with any civilian organization. Nor are any other training regimes recognized. Our Department Of Public Safety (Highway Patrol / Texas Rangers) is the sole agency with responsibility for training and certifying instructors.
 
#41 ·
Like I said in another post talking about this situation, I do agree that WLP and his co-conspirators need to be taken to task and face all charges.

The NY AG's lawsuit should be tossed out. It truly has no merit. You don't shut down a business that has an employee stealing from it. I've never heard of that even being requested before. We have had more than a few instances of employee theft over the years around here. One of the biggest crooks was the former city treasurer. He's in prison now, and no one tried to dissolve the city charter. No one tried to dissolve the tribes casino, or the other various places with crooked employees. Granted, I am in Wisconsin and not NY.

What's frightening, that I learned from the lawyer who talked about this lawsuit, is that should dissolution occur all of the NRA resources could go to the state. Asset forfeiture laws could be applied to take the resources. There is no way that outcome would be right. The reason for the attempt to dissolve the organization isn't driven by any legal reason (much less moral). This lawsuit was brought about for illegal reasons, and is being done the wrong way. I don't have faith in the judicial system of the state to squash the lawsuit.
 
#42 ·
Gee, this kind of sounds like the way the American people feel about their…………

GOVERNMENT.

All one needs do in that case (as well as this one) is start handling their business and paying attention again.

What a concept!


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