Weapons Presentation: Long Gun vs Handgun

Some thoughts on long gun weight and stance:

If you’ve got a heavy, long rifle (and you’re not 6’-5” and weigh 300 lbs) you may not be able to hold the rifle up with the left arm as shown below. Women especially have to lift/hold the gun forearm up from underneath. This is why we all tend to think “Lighter is Righter” for a modern day fighting carbine.



Also, short, light and handy makes target transitions faster without over swinging as with a heavy barrel. The lighter guns start moving sooner and stop quicker. But they also rise more under recoil (even the 5.56). The forward "straight off arm" affords MUCH more recoil and muzzle control. No chicken wing either when looking at it from the front.

We found this out in competition and I have rolled it over into combative applications.

And yeah, I did invent this. It blended seamlessly with my pistol presentation at full extension. :yup:

40Bob said:

I use my off hand to pull the gun into my shoulder, similar to how you are holding the sub gun in your avatar. I like to use the same grip on each rifle and tend to keep my elbow tucked as I did come from a target shooting background. It also works out to the same grip If I am prone or firing from a field expedient position. I find that what works in the real world is better for me than what wins 3 gun matches. It is also why I like 2 point slings, they serve 2 purposes for me, carry the rifle and use a hasty sling.

Click to expand...

Me too. 3 gun stuff doesn't do it for me either. I keep my elbows tucked in. I don't shoot completely squared but also not all that bladed. I'll edit this with some pics of different rifles. I use what works when foot position isn't ideal, when I may need to support on cover, etc. I've found I can tuck my right arm in even tighter and more comfortably using the BCM Gunfighter grip over the A2, MOE or BG-17 that I used to use.

This is what works for me whether moving through a structure or shooting offhand at 100 meters. It's tight and stable but allows fast transitions from target to target. I've spent time shooting as DMR instructs and I truly appreciate it. I've found for me the choking back just a small amount with my support hand is more comfortable over a longer time of clearing a building or just an extended day of shooting.

As I've heard others describe it, you could basically put me in a fighting stance with my weight shifted forward over the balls of my feet then hand me a knife, handgun or rifle and the only thing that'll change is how far out each arm is reaching.

You'll see it varies a bit, but one constant is that my thumb is always in line with the bore. I've noticed this helps tame the muzzle flip whether with a rifle or a handgun. You'll see I do this with 10.5" through 16" 5.56 rifles, with the MP5 and with the 308 SCAR H.

This first pic is my normal grip and stance for all types of shooting. I'll admit, most of what I do is close range work out to maybe 200. This is what works FOR ME. I'll show others why if they ask and I've yet to see someone not be faster on a timer when they shoot like this or especially like DMR, but sometimes other things are just as important, like comfort over extended periods of time, unfortunately.

I lose very little breaking my elbow instead of locking it, but there is a difference on the timer, however small. The key for me is getting the stock more towards my center and the top of the stock at least a few inches below the top of my shoulder, not over it like many shooters used to do. My support hand pulls the rifle back so it's solid and I could remove my firing hand while the rifle stays in place. The support hand/arm does most of the work in moving the rifle as well as holding it in place.





This is the farthest I can get out on the 9" hand guard. It also has a handstop.



My 10.5". You can see through the holes in the top of the hand guard that my thumb is on top of the 9 o'clock rail.



SCAR H 308. My thumb is on top of the 9 o'clock rail



SCAR L 5.56



About as agressive as I currently get. This is shooting at 100 meters, 6" shoot-n-see's. I no longer use the tape switches.





Here's my handgun grip. I'm actually more aggressive now and torque my elbows out which forces my palms in. It doesn't look much different though other than the Glock 17 instead of a 1911 for the past three years...