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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just completed reviewing a case file. Rather interesting circumstances and I immediately thought of my friends here since this is all about defensive carry. Here's the facts:

9 to 5 guy (and licensed to carry) is at work when his boss unexpectedly sticks his head in the guy's office and tells him he can knock off work early today. Its around 3:00 pm and he lives about 1/2 an hour from work. It should be pointed out that the guy lives in a remote unincorporated part of the county where police patrol is rather foreign and police arrival time is between 15 and 30 minutes - emergency or not.

As he pulls up to his home he sees a beat up old pick up truck with no tag parked on the street right in front of his home. He's never seen the truck before and never around the neighborhood that he recalls. He slowly pulls into his driveway but instead of parking directly in front of the front door, he decides to hang back and park in his driveway, but just beyond the sidewalk and purposely away from the front door. He exits his car and unsnaps his holster but keeps his pistol holstered. Stepping out of his car he looks down the east side of his home and sees nothing unusual. Using the sidewalk, he then walks over to the west side of his home and peers down the side of the house. Nothing unusual there either.

Finally, he decides to approach the front door of his home. As he gets closer he can see that something is not quite right. Getting closer he sees that his front door is slightly ajar and looks like its been kicked in. He quietly gets closer and can barely make out two male voices laughing and speaking in hushed tones intermittently. He can also hear things being dropped and drawers pulled and emptied from his antique china closet. I'll stop here.

Question: What Are You Going To Do? Thoughts?
 

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This can be argued several ways, and they all be right. I think it depends more on YOU. What your character is, how you react, your nature, and your assessment of your own capabilities, etc. There are those that run in , in an emergency, etc. and those that run away from it. Some may feel questionable about their own capabilities or unsure, and are one that will withdraw and call 911. That's ok. Then there are those who are confident, have experience and will go in , in a situation, etc. Police officers, firemen, etc. all fit the later category. I'm in the later category / group. My house, and I'ld walk in and confront them. And on top of that when I was younger living on a farm ... if there was a problem, you handled it, and then called the Sheriff and let him know what happened. Because waiting was often not an option. One reason every rancher or farmer I ever knew carried a gun or had one in their truck.

Now, if I was on our farm ..... I might fire off a few rounds and see how fast they can run out of the house too, while waiting there to tell them to get on the ground when they came out. There could be issues with that if they are armed though. But, if I'm on my farm ... I also have an AR in the truck and would be behind cover as they came out.
 

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Is there anything inside your house that is worth you getting shot for? if yes, go on in. If not, fall back and call 911 and be a good witness.
 

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Stay outside, observe from a safe distance, call 911. Are there 2 BGs inside or maybe more? Rushing in could prove to be a fatal mistake. Nothing in my house is worth dying for, that goes for both myself as well as the BGs. Each situation is different. There are to many variables to have an exact answer as how to proceed. If family was in the house then that's a different story.
 

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I just completed reviewing a case file. Rather interesting circumstances and I immediately thought of my friends here since this is all about defensive carry. Here's the facts:

9 to 5 guy (and licensed to carry) is at work when his boss unexpectedly sticks his head in the guy's office and tells him he can knock off work early today. Its around 3:00 pm and he lives about 1/2 an hour from work. It should be pointed out that the guy lives in a remote unincorporated part of the county where police patrol is rather foreign and police arrival time is between 15 and 30 minutes - emergency or not.

As he pulls up to his home he sees a beat up old pick up truck with no tag parked on the street right in front of his home. He's never seen the truck before and never around the neighborhood that he recalls. He slowly pulls into his driveway but instead of parking directly in front of the front door, he decides to hang back and park in his driveway, but just beyond the sidewalk and purposely away from the front door. He exits his car and unsnaps his holster but keeps his pistol holstered. Stepping out of his car he looks down the east side of his home and sees nothing unusual. Using the sidewalk, he then walks over to the west side of his home and peers down the side of the house. Nothing unusual there either.

Finally, he decides to approach the front door of his home. As he gets closer he can see that something is not quite right. Getting closer he sees that his front door is slightly ajar and looks like its been kicked in. He quietly gets closer and can barely make out two male voices laughing and speaking in hushed tones intermittently. He can also hear things being dropped and drawers pulled and emptied from his antique china closet. I'll stop here.

Question: What Are You Going To Do? Thoughts?
Assuming no one else is home at the time, I'm hustling back to my car, pulling out, and calling the cops. I can keep an eye on them as they leave and provide details to dispatch as needed.
 
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Take cover. Call 911. Give all the details necessary then hang up. Be prepared to shoot any hostile person coming out of the house.
 

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This can be argued several ways, and they all be right. I think it depends more on YOU. What your character is, how you react, your nature, and your assessment of your own capabilities, etc. There are those that run in , in an emergency, etc. and those that run away from it. Some may feel questionable about their own capabilities or unsure, and are one that will withdraw and call 911. That's ok. Then there are those who are confident, have experience and will go in , in a situation, etc. Police officers, firemen, etc. all fit the later category. I'm in the later category / group. My house, and I'ld walk in and confront them. And on top of that when I was younger living on a farm ... if there was a problem, you handled it, and then called the Sheriff and let him know what happened. Because waiting was often not an option. One reason every rancher or farmer I ever knew carried a gun or had one in their truck.

Now, if I was on our farm ..... I might fire off a few rounds and see how fast they can run out of the house too, while waiting there to tell them to get on the ground when they came out. There could be issues with that if they are armed though. But, if I'm on my farm ... I also have an AR in the truck and would be behind cover as they came out.
You forgot a third group of people. Those who's ego is bigger than their brain, so they barge right in without considering all the possibilities. They think they're in your second group, but in reality they're going off what they've learned from movies and TV shows. They may get lucky, and the intruders submit. Or they could end up as a hostage, or dead when they find out they're out gunned or there's a lookout to pick them off.
 

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I like the call 911 - disable their vehicle, and I would add "use their vehicle for cover and concealment" and make them come to you when they find whatever they were looking for.

You might lose some irreplaceable personal possessions, but you would have the tactical advantage to save your life.

We also don't know if there were other family members in the home, that would change things considerably. One would guess that Mr. 9-5 has a wife that assists with the antique china collecting.

best

mqqn
 

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I'd check for keys in the suspicious vehicle and remove them if they were there and call 911 otherwise, a few flats would be in order. No life threatened (yet), then gather info and wait for more good guys to arrive. Insurance will cover just about everything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Also, the reason I found this particular set of facts rather intriguing is that we're always addressing scenarios where we're home and the BG is outside breaking in. Here its reverse. BGs are already inside our home and we're on the outside. I just found that curious and out of the ordinary from what we normally prepare for.
 

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Also, the reason I found this particular set of facts rather intriguing is that we're always addressing scenarios where we're home and the BG is outside breaking in. Here its reverse. BGs are already inside our home and we're on the outside. I just found that curious and out of the ordinary from what we normally prepare for.
I'm with the call LE, wait outside and be a good witness guys. I do like the idea of disabling the vehicle though, but knowing my luck it would be a couple of my wife's friends she invited over in a borrowed vehicle.

Nothing I have inside material wise is worth getting shot, or even shooting somebody over. Material stuff is the exact reason why I have a good homeowners insurance policy. This type scenario is the exact reason I firmly believe in securing firearms rather that trying to hide them. These couple guys could have broken in with nothing, but now would have my AR and a pistol.

Chuck
 

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Also, the reason I found this particular set of facts rather intriguing is that we're always addressing scenarios where we're home and the BG is outside breaking in. Here its reverse. BGs are already inside our home and we're on the outside. I just found that curious and out of the ordinary from what we normally prepare for.
True , that . The role reversal is why my option is seek cover and call for help . Walking in cold to an unknown situation trying to be a hero could very well make my wife a widow .
 

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Let me play devils advocate here. I have thought about this for awhile.

When did it become verboten to protect one's property? Are you permitted to use any force to protect your property? If so how much force are you permitted to use?
Would it not make sense for the victim to be allowed superior force? Are you supposed to wait and see what force the BG has prior to you selecting your choice of force?
Any wrong selection of a force tool would be at the expense of the victim, not the BG. Too much force you go to jail. Too little and you get planted in the dirt.

Are you permitted to perform a citizens arrest?

If the powers that be say you can't use any force using the old, "it's only property" line, try confronting one of them and demand they turn over their wallet to you and see what happens.

Here's a scenario: Guy works two jobs to make ends meet. He can't afford insurance. He eats beans for 6 months so he can buy a small flat screen TV. BG breaks in and is in the process of stealing his piggy bank with his life savings and the TV, do you think this person has a good reason to protect his property, or should he follow the new mantra of it's only property?

I understand and respect an individual's right to believe even the nastiest criminal's life is worth more that their own property, but many might disagree, including the criminal themselves who consistently put their life at risk with their criminal activities, then complain when they are injured or shot in the commission of said criminal activities.

Disclaimer: If I returned home to see a BG running out of my house with my big screen TV I wouldn't shoot him in the back. If I did that he would fall down and damage my TV. :image035:

That said if criminals had a very high chance of being shot, caught and REAL PUNISHEMENT, crime would drop like a rock.

Get the popcorn and let the flames begin.:22a:

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I know that in FL the law allows any force necessary, except deadly force, to protect one's property.

And so now let me tell you what really did happen. The guy sat back in his car and called 911. "No units available," is what our hero is informed. He begins to walk back to the house. For some ungodly reason, a 911 call taker called the address our hero had just given them as he approaches the front door. I mean he lives there, right? He should know his own address, no? Why the need to cross-reference the house address and call the phone? All academic now. So, the call taker at the desk calls the house. The house phone rings and rings and rings the BGs get spooked and make a dash for the front door with our hero right by the threshold. He decides better to keep them inside his house than deal with them two against one on the street. Drawing his pistol he orders them to stop. For a moment they do. But they then decide to make a bum rush at our hero figuring he wont shoot. They were wrong. Glock 17 fell both perps. Our hero, BTW, thought he'd only fired two each. He had one round left in the chamber and one round in the mag. Both perps just out of prison where they met each other and got paroled at around the same time. They then hooked up at a probation mandated drug program and rekindled their prison-forged friendship. Both in their mid-20s they'd seen about half their lives inside a prison cell. Ruled justifiable homicide; no charges filed.
 

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Sam,

Trust me, I have no mistaken brotherly love for strangers (even people I know as a matter of fact), but I do have an appreciation for how much a good lawyer costs. Shoot someone, justified or not, and you're going to have a lawyer involved. I simply weigh the cost benefit, IE; is that big screen TV worth my boys college fund, my next new vehicle etc.

Now change the scenario, add the threat of physical harm, and the response changes.

Chuck
 
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