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Growing up my dad\'s favorite pistol was and still is his Ruger P85. He got it when it was the bleeding edge of technology. It\'s now well worn but it still breathes fire and spits lightning.

It was our constant guardian. As even a little boy I knew when we were traveling across country late at night, my dad was there watching over us and so was the Ruger.

Last year I received a very thoughtful gift of a Ruger P89 with a stainless slide. I shoot it all the time. It\'s my only automatic pistol and will be for quite some time. I found it works very well for me with Mec-Gar 17 round capacity magazines and Winchesters. I plan to take my CCW test with it.

Is it the nicest pistol you can get? No, but it\'s much more affordable than a SIG and it stands head and shoulders above the pot metal crap. It\'s a real working man\'s gun; a gun for someone who likes something that\'s not junk but can\'t afford to throw down $700 on a new HK. A gun that\'s better than what the criminals use.

It will always have a place in my collection. It\'s a double stack 9mm automatic pistol. I\'ve added some Hogue grips which make it like a whole new pistol. They improve performance 200% I swear. You seen the retaining pin on one of these things? It\'s a hard, solid shiny piece of steel. Not a little piece of plastic.

The Ruger P Series has been called the AK47 of the handgun world and I agree. It\'s not the most accurate, it\'s not the prettiest, and it\'s bulky in the hand for a lot of people. But it is rock solid. You could fire 20,000 rounds through this gun and I bet you that you\'d never break it. The magazine would wear out first.

My only beef with it is that the magazine catch doesn\'t always engage if you gently slide the magazine in, so it takes a certain touch. You have to insert the magazine firmly without slamming it.

Is it a good carry piece? No. Too thick. But does it have its uses? Oh heavens yes. It\'s taught me an appreciation for a well made automatic pistol for one thing. It\'s given me access to cheap practice ammunition for another so I can go shooting every other weekend and fire 250 rounds at a time. It\'s a tool that I have used to become a safer person, a more competent handler of firearms, and a better marksman who\'s more likely to succeed under stress.

I don\'t give a damn what someone whose surname is Ruger says. I won\'t cut myself off from such a tool.

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3,213 Posts
It\'s so funny whenever this comes up.

The fact is I could purchase anything from a Bersa Thunder 380 to a Wilson Combat Handguns .45 and still be told what a piece of junk it is.

Rugers have bad ergonomics? Have you guys ever seen a Glock?

Not that it matters anyway. Add some aftermarket grips, problem solved.

The important thing is, it works, and it works for me, and it\'s taught me a lot about what I want when I buy another automatic pistol someday. Now will my next purchase probably be a Ruger? No, I\'ll want to try something different and see how that works. I\'ll probably also have a slightly larger budget.

But does that mean the one I have now is a POJ? Nope.

1000 rounds and no misfires yet. I\'m impressed. I think I\'ve just been incredibly lucky because all automatic pistols I\'ve ever handled are prone to occassional misfires.

Ruger is like Taurus. It\'s a brand that many people don\'t like for whatever reason; because it\'s different, because it\'s inexpensive, because it looks funny, etc.

But you know what? I\'m the owner and it\'s to my satisfaction. What exactly am I going to run out and buy for the same cash that\'s going to change my life forever?

Besides I don\'t know what you guys do for a living, but a new Ruger represents the top of my budget for the time being in a lot of categories. I also realize this still gives me lots of choices, but I refuse to cut myself off from an option even if it\'s not the option I go with.

Ruger does make some things I wouldn\'t really want... like I\'m not too crazy about the Mini-14. But that\'s any gun maker. They all make something of theirs I don\'t particularly care for.

All I know is I\'m a fan of the P Series, and that every gun I own has been called a piece of junk by somebody. My Smith, my Mossberg, my Marlin, and my Norinco have all been called cheap pot metal crap to my face and I like all of them anyway.

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3,213 Posts
And this is where we hit the meat of the issue.

If you are so disgusted by Ruger, why buy a Smith? What they did was worse.

Or for that matter why buy any foreign made handgun? You\'re putting Americans out of business.

The logic is well intentioned but flawed, and the gesture is epic in the eyes of he who commits it but is ultimately meaningless.

By anyone else\'s definition nothing I own is a \"combat ready\" weapon. By my own definition nothing exists that\'s a \"combat ready\" weapon. No matter what I acquire, there will always be something much nicer. If I were Bill Gates I might have a chance at finding the best pistol in the world, but I\'m not so I\'ll concentrate on what\'s realistic.

Anyone who claims the slide on a Ruger is so heavy... have you actually handled one? I\'ll admit it has a curious slightly top heavy heft to it, but it\'s like the difference between a Mossberg 500 and a Remington 870 in the hand; the Remington feels \"Wrong\" to me. It\'s a big difference to someone who is used to one or the other but fundamentally the same thing. Besides, stick in a full magazine and suddenly it\'s not top heavy any more. The Hogue grips help solve this problem too because they do weigh more than the factory grips even if it\'s just an ounce or two, but that\'s all it takes to distribute the weight out.

No, it works and works well enough for my purposes. It shoots straight, it is as reliable as anything else, and other than the magazine not catching if you don\'t load it just so (of course in a real situation I\'d slam load it anyway) there\'s nothing fundamentally wrong with it.

Given the choice between a machete and a Hi Point I might very well take the machete. Given a choice between a machete and a Ruger I will take the Ruger.

And besides, if it\'s so terrible as everyone says, don\'t you think I\'ll figure it out eventually?

Edit: Drool... nice pics! I hope to amass a mighty pile like that some day.

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3,213 Posts
Wherein have I ever said I think the Ruger is as good as the better products on the market? I did say I think Glocks have terrible ergonomics.

To be honest, I feel value wise, there is a \"sweet spot\" on the firearms market for every buyer, subjective to one\'s own tastes and needs. I favor anything I can get for $400 or less. $500 is about as much as I\'m willing to go. The reason why is that I have discovered that for every dollar I spend on the gun, I spend that amount again on accessories. For me, the best value is a new Taurus revolver or a used S&W revolver, or a military surplus rifle of some sort.

Now are these the best guns out there? I hope not. I\'ll be in a better position some day and I want there to be some better products for me to consider. I do have plans to one day get a real rifle, a nice Marlin, Remington, Weatherby... something in that vein. That won\'t be cheap.

But are they necessarily the best value? I think not. Sure these products perform better, but the more you pay, the slighter the difference becomes.

I\'m the same way with pocket knives. $100 is as far as I\'m willing to go because I realize a high performance knife costs money. I realize my $100 knives aren\'t as good as a Strider or a CRK offering, but they cut and they cut well. I can and do depend on them.

There are guns that are cheap. For instance Hi Point or Jennings. Then there are guns that are inexpensive, like a Bersa or a Makarov or a Ruger.

The fact is, my life actually does not revolve around guns. I just feel very strongly about my rights and my personal safety. I am extremely interested in learning things like point shooting or \'slicing the pie\'. I think it\'s important to take some time to learn how to shoot. But I am not going to spend my existence consumed with being prepared. There are many things I love more than guns.

Besides, I don\'t think it\'s fair that only the haters should have their opinions noted. Why is it that when somebody says something positive about something, they\'re always treated like they did something wrong?

Tim Leatherman said he was going to vote for Kerry and people reacted by boycotting him. I\'m sorry but he\'s still going to vote for Kerry. Even if you think that\'s wrong, he has the right to do that. Kerry still lost anyway. Boycotts are ridiculous. Not buying a firearm you might enjoy just because you disagree with the company\'s political manueverings is ultimately only penalizing yourself.

I for instance oppose gun control with a passion. What if one of my student\'s parents who was a big time gun control supporter found out about this and went to the school board demanding I be fired or receive a pay cut for my political ideas? That would be ridiculous.

It\'s all a bit silly really anyway. Here we are nitpicking each other when there\'s real idiots running around claiming all guns are evil horrible devil wands. It\'s our Byzantine, liability happy society that\'s really at work here. Gun makers are going to face more and more \"make legal concessions or die\" decisions that aren\'t going to be popular. I don\'t like these decisions either, but the forces that push the gun companies to them are bigger than the gun makers.

How many gun control groups attack the makers and dealers? Too many. A company is in business for the purpose of making money, and getting your pants sued off or paying tons of legal fees for a legal battle no individual company can win is not conducive to profit.

Yes the things the man supported were wrong. But the fact is he\'s but a product of a large movement that threatens to destroy all we hold dear. If Ruger or Smith and Wesson hadn\'t made these concessions, someone else would have.

The gun makers aren\'t going to save our rights for us. We can\'t depend on for profit companies to perform acts of charity by helping us in our fight.

You boycott Smith and Wesson, well that\'s one more American who makes their living in the firearms industry we\'re losing.

On top of that I plan to buy a revolver for my first dedicated carry piece anyway so the whole point is kind of moot I suppose.

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3,213 Posts
So let me be clear here. Correct me please if I am wrong because I do hate to be wrong.

Bill Ruger supports AWB. Wrong yes. His right? Unfortunately.

AWB sunsets. Bill Ruger\'s actions have been corrected.

Do I understand the situation correctly? If not then disregard the rest and please correct me.

So now you propose we boycott Ruger for not making something?

They\'re already hurting themselves. That $85 I threw down for normal capacity Mec Gar brand magazines would have been theirs if they made them.

A boycott is hardly necessary if that\'s what we\'re upset about. If the company doesn\'t make a legal accessory you feel you have a right to, then they have already penalized themselves for you!

You might as well get mad at Michelin or Ford for not making normal capacity magazines. Boycott Ford! Boycott Michelin! They don\'t make normal capacity magazines!

Oh wait... Ford, Michelin, Ruger... those companies don\'t make normal capacity magazines. They already choose to lose money.

Is it just me or does it seem like Ruger is therefore already getting its just desserts in the form of losing business from people like me who actually own a Ruger but don\'t buy factory accessories because they are not available?

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3,213 Posts
It just seems like to me we can all lean back and feel smug anyway. I mean honestly, do they really expect their company to remain strong if people like me who get a Ruger as a gift don\'t give them any money to accessorize it?

True they made the money selling the pistol to the person who bought it, but it seems to me like their own decision has come back on them.

I own an SKS. It doesn\'t mean I support Communism. Buying a Ruger doesn\'t mean you support Bill Ruger\'s outlook.

This is the same kind of thinking that led people to boycott Heinz Ketchup. I\'m sorry but you are not hurting gun control laws by not buying a particular brand of ketchup.

The bans the man supported would have just come about as the result of someone else\'s handiwork. Who knows, maybe he saved us from something even worse by offering those concessions.

I\'m not going to defend what he did, I\'m just saying let\'s not miss the forest for the trees here. Our battle is bigger than Bill Ruger\'s wrongdoings.
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