[rfurtkamp]

Ruger won\'t ever get my business - without Bill\'s participation, I don\'t know if the mag ban etc would have ever passed.

And it wasn\'t against the most anti-gun President in history as a backdrop that he began his idiocy - it was when Bush Sr was in office in 89.

All it would take from Ruger would be a \"We are happy to sell our full line of firearms and accessories, including magazines of legal capacity\" statement - and how hard is that?

Apparently too hard for them to stomach.

Note that factory 20 and 30 round Mini-14 mags still aren\'t available from them for civilian sale.

 

[rfurtkamp]

When I can get a police trade-in Sig for $350, the Rugers are out - no contest.

When I can get trade in S&Ws with better ergonomics for $250-300, Rugers don\'t win there either.

In the new gun department, I can get BHP clones in the $200-250 range new that with the same amount of work it takes to get the $350ish new Rugers to run and feel good without patronizing the company that still hasn\'t renounced its past bad decisions.

I can see having a fondness for a firearm due to sentimental attachment to them. I have a few I shouldn\'t like but they\'re among my favorites to blow away an afternoon with.

But when push comes to shove, the price difference in Ruger\'s firearms versus other options just hurts - even the P345 that the mags were raving about was only a 50% improvement - it\'s still the same incredibly blocky Ruger slide and top-end ergonomics on an improved frame. With most of the new Ruger autos running $380ish to $450 depending on options, caliber, and finish, they\'re not in the same league as the basic Glock models available for the same price - or the pre-owned factory refurbed Sigs - or the Springfield XDs or the Springfield 1911s or....

When the chips have been down for me in the wild. my Sig may have been more expensive , but it worked 100% and got me home in one piece. The $100 or so I paid for mine over the available Ruger P89 at the time was a quickly forgotten Franklin.

 

[rfurtkamp]

I own many, many guns from manufacturers that are maligned - from a Century-built FAL that\'s been flawless for years and years, to Norinco commercial Tokarevs that were my go-to gun when I couldn\'t afford any better, etc. I don\'t like Glocks myself, given the fact that my hands are substantially larger than normal and the newer finger grooved models act as pain increasers not grip enhancers.

In the ergonomic realm, I don\'t see a whole lot of difference between the average slide-heavy, slide-overwide Ruger auto and a Hi-Point. Both are cheap American guns that aren\'t generally suitable for concealed carry, both typically work and have detractors a mile wide, but one will let you buy a few cases of ammo to practice on with without supporting Bill Ruger\'s heirs who haven\'t distanced themselves from his statements.

And yes, you\'ll find someone to knock your choice in most cases.

I won\'t be one in most - but Ruger\'s shameless sellout of the American gun owner in 1989 and again in 94 and again in 04 when they didn\'t bring back hi-cap mags etc. tells me I won\'t be burned again.

I\'ve sworn off even the used ones as the luck I\'ve had with the wheelguns matches my disgust for the company\'s policy.

As you can see from a sampling of what\'s in one of my several safes, I\'m not afraid of cheap guns. I\'m not afraid of what Combat Handguns is going to like. I\'m not afraid to have cheap range toys or ones with bulky ergonomics - but there is a substantial difference between recommending Ruger as a practical pistol or a range toy versus a combat-ready weapon. I own only a few in the latter category, and Ruger won\'t ever be among those.

 

[rfurtkamp]

I\'m not pleased with Smith\'s actions. I\'ve never bought a new one. My disgust for them isn\'t as high as it is with Bill Ruger for starting this whole mess off in regards to magazine bans.

Foreign made guns I don\'t have a problem with - never have. If American workers and design are to be competitive outside of a closed market, they need to operate in a broader market. When there\'s been an American product that suits my needs I buy it. When there\'s not, my money still goes to an American gun store, an American gun distributor, an American shipping company, to the American importer of the weapon, etc. What I am against is American protectionism disguised as something else - which brings us back to Bill Ruger.

Bill Ruger supported a magazine ban, not because it was good for the shooters who bought his products or for the marketplace - but to compete against Glock and Sig and ensure that his product was legislatively better rather than qualitatively better. It\'s the same thing the NRA did to gun owners in 1968 when they went along with the Gun Control Act, created the modern dealer (which solidified the control that manufacturers had over another level of distribution), and cut out the foreign competition that was in many ways rightfully kicking their butts at the time.

As far as finding the \'nicest'handgun, I spent several years and went through about a hundred only to return to the first I felt really at home with. I ended up keeping many of them because they were still entertaining, had a home in my collection, et cetera.

And yes, I\'ve handled every Ruger generation of centerfire auto made. The P85 is the best of the bunch, with decreasing ergonomics with each passing generation. The \'10mm FBI'failure passed on to Ruger\'s consumers begins the clunk full-time and they just don\'t seem to have gotten over it. It\'s not the Mossberg/Remington difference in shotguns IME - it\'s the Browning Hi-Power or Sig or S&W 59/69 series versus the Hi-Point and Rugers of the world. I see and handle the Rugers regularly - I\'ve shot every example of the P series made at one point or another I believe for the same reason I revisit Glock every now and again to see if my tastes have changed.

And I\'m not worried about whether you figure it out. You have the right to carry a rock if you want. Truthfully, I could care less if you decided to buy nothing but a brace of P94 DAOs. If you can shoot well with them, that should end it for you.

In this thread, you went defensive quickly, because your personal choice was attacked. Nobody was doing that - they were expressing discontent with the company, its policies, and their experience with its products. The first two aren\'t as subjective as the latter. Had you not fallen into the usual trap of \"attack the higher priced guns\", I\'d probably have let it slide myself.

 

[rfurtkamp]

What you miss is Ruger not just does not make said magazines, Bill Ruger was behind the actual conception, theoretical and legislative, of the 10 round max. That was HIS baby. Not S&W. Not Colt. Not Feinstein. Not Kerry.

Bill Ruger\'s.

That\'s why some of us will never forgive it.

Without Bill Ruger\'s \"insight\", the bans we know from 1989 on, import and otherwise, may never have transpired. Without his stewardship and participation, there\'s no way in hell the NRA would have signed off on them like they did.