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Hello all! I not brand new to the world of handguns but in some ways still pretty green. Is there a formal standard of what constitutes a good grouping? There are many variables at play such as the gun used, ammo used, distance to the target and size of the target. I understand that as the target is farther away you shots will begin to spread out. Also, what kind of grouping is enough to be considered "combat" effective? Sorry for all the wordy questions. Generally I just try to hit as close to the bullseye as I can. Should there be a goal to try and achieve?

Thanks in advance for the replies!
 

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Quarter size. Three of four rounds in a quarter size group will mess up any BGs day. Get consistent, then placement. JMHO
 

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I'm kind of "average to above average" from what I see at my range. But I go by my old law school grading curve axiom - "A long as you are smarter than the idiot sitting next to you, you'll be okay."

For rifles with open peep sights from a bench (.22), I try for a goal of 3/4" at 25 yards. And if I get 1" I'm happy. Some people here can shoot circles around that, but with my eyes I'm happy with that.

For my .22 pistols at 10 yards, I try for about 0.5" and if I get 3/4," I'm happy. Again, some people here can shoot circles around that (I saw a guy and gal couple shooting tiny holes with a .22 pistol at 10 yards all day long. It was something to watch.)

For point shooting at 5 - 7 yards I try to all in the "pie plate." (I saw a SWAT dude doing 2 to the chest/1 to the head rapid fire in very very tight groups at 10 yards. It was something to watch.)

So I'm probably an average shot, and good is subjective.
 

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for SD aiming center mass is your best choice. hitting anywhere in the center mass is good. try grouping in the center where the vital organs are if possible. i usually am happy with it if i can cover my grouping with my hand in or around the vital organ area.
 

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When you have the basics really down pat, you should probably be able to put all rounds in 1.5" @ 7 yds. Remember, the "center mass" of most targets is actually gut shooting someone. Think of center mass as the area that contains the heart and lungs (thoracic cavity).
 

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Gotta get my eyes checked. I thought I'd read "Good Groping" and thought somebody had been handled in a misappropriate way.

:blink:
 

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If it stays on the paper plate, I'm good with it. If it stays inside the debossed circle in the center of the plate, then I'm really happy with it.
I agree with this. While I think one should strive to shoot tight groups, realistically, one should be able to keep all shots on a paper plate at whatever distance one is willing to shoot; consistently.
 
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I agree with this. While I think one should strive to shoot tight groups, realistically, one should be able to keep all shots on a paper plate at whatever distance one is willing to shoot; consistently.
And to expound even more on the OPs question; "combat effective" could be a missed shot, assuming it doesn't hit something else that you don't want a hole in. IMO, combat effective is judged solely by result, so even a miss that caused the BG to turn and flee, would be a combat effective shot. Not that I'd ever advocate just trying to get lead in the general direction, or anything like that, I'm just offering my perspective on the term and how I would judge it.

Three shots high center mass and one through the brain stem would be good too...
 

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My first goal in defensive shooting is to not have a stray bullet find an innocent civillian. This slows me down just a little and from that point on the thoracic cavity is the goal. I don't consider anything below the diaphram as a good grouping. Many will say breaking the pelvic girdle is a good shot I am not one of them. With a clear cut of the aorta a person with the will to survive can kill you before he dies. The Madulla Oblongota is in direct line with the center of the chest making it my goal to work up from sturnum to madula stopping all movement. Just as in pool I think being able to call your shot is where you want to be in self defense shooting.

Just my thoughts on grouping is for target practice shot placement is where it is at for self defense.
 

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@ 25 yards with a 3" barrel. I consider this to be sufficient to accomplish my goal. More accurate, with mroe precision is always better.

 

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Shooting a stationary target from a stationary position is great but in real life the bad guy and the good guy are most likely to be moving and I am sure the bad guy is not going to stand still until you lineup those iron sights. I thought i could shoot until I took several low light laser courses and found that the real test is a moving target/stationary shooter, moving target/moving shooter, stationary target/moving shooter, shooter down/moving target. The low light laser course reduced my draw to target hit time and accuracy, it also increased my point and shoot accuracy when not assisted with the laser. I was scheduled for a third training session but my instructor left for a job in some 3rd world country. I am quite sure it is not a missionary position not at the salary he quoted.
 

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Defensive... Zero down

Target shooting offhand with a .22lr pistol from 20 yards... This:


uploadfromtaptalk1369193583453.jpg
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 

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I'm old-fashioned and admire tight groups on paper. An inch at 10 yards is great. Three inches at 25 yards is also great. It's fun to strive to beat a personal best ever group.
 

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I'm old-fashioned and admire tight groups on paper. An inch at 10 yards is great. Three inches at 25 yards is also great. It's fun to strive to beat a personal best ever group.
I was just at a Suarez International course recently and the topic of groupings for defensive shooting came up. The summary was that if you have a super small tight grouping you are not shooting fast enough. Try to get your small grouping, then try getting it faster (which will naturally open up your shot spacing).
The goal for defensive shooting was a grouping you could barely cover up with your hand according the the Suarez instructor. I can sit there and really hone in and get 3 or 4 bullets on the bullseye but its gonna take me a lot longer than shooting 3 or 4 bullets should if I were shooting a someone charging me with a knife for example.
 
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