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Discussion Starter #1
I know some of you have MUCHO DENERO and have an on call lawyer.
Me, not so much.

With my CCW applied for and awaiting the call to go pick it up it's got me thinking about what will I do when I've drawn, possible shots fired, and worst case, BG down, and I'm sitting in a holding cell.

My pastor and bro-in-law have Prepaid Legal Services and have used it a few times and I like it.
I know that the NRA will help if you've followed the law to a 'T'.

My question is:
What do you do for legal protection for that hopefully never drawn CCW?
 

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I'll find a lawyer after the fact. Might be handy to have a few numbers on hand, but I don't.
 

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No retainer here... I'm so poor I can hardly pay attention! :embarassed:

But I do have three attorney's business cards in my wallet. :yup:
 

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Good idea thinking about it now, but consider this:

I'd explain the situation once and then I'd ask if I am "being charged at this time". If they say yes, or waffle (no clear answer), I would then "lawyer up".

After that, it's Name, Rank, Serial Number time.

Then, well, I like the idea of having the NRA or a shared lawyer on hand...
 

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I watched the series of videos "Don't talk to the police" YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1. Make a lot of good points. The courts will appoint an attorney without issue. I personally won't say anything to a law enforcement official. I dont' need to. You might be able to get out of going to jail for the night, but it may cost you life in jail.
 

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In the case of a shooting, the police are not your friends. I have the number of my family attorney in my cell phone and on a card in my wallet. I will volunteer no information to anyone other than my attorney. I will not answer any questions which cannot be answered by a "yes" or a "no", and then the answer is, "You'll need to speak with my attorney". Once the genie is out of the bottle, you can't stuff him back in.
 

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The courts will appoint an attorney without issue.
Have you had this happen? I'm just curious because in Texas (Harris County), you have to be dirt poor to get a lawyer appointed to you. If you have anything you can sell (car included), they will not provide you one.


If something happened, I'd call the police to inform them that there was an incident. I would not get into details with the police, but I would give broad (truthful) statements. For example: If the BG came at me with a knife or gun, I'd tell them that. But I wouldn't get into details until I talked to an attorney.
 

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Have you had this happen? I'm just curious because in Texas (Harris County), you have to be dirt poor to get a lawyer appointed to you. If you have anything you can sell (car included), they will not provide you one.
That's been the case in a number of States, where I worked.
 

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Good idea thinking about it now, but consider this:

I'd explain the situation once and then I'd ask if I am "being charged at this time". If they say yes, or waffle (no clear answer), I would then "lawyer up".

After that, it's Name, Rank, Serial Number time.

Then, well, I like the idea of having the NRA or a shared lawyer on hand...

That's mighty helpful of you to make a statement to the police.

In the legal community, we call that a confession.

Lemme splain...

Anything you say can and will be used against you. That's not just after you are read your rights, but at any time.

You don't know what the police know. You don't know what they have been told.

You may be confirming their information (you were involved somehow, you were the guy with the gun...) or outright providing the information that they didn't have in terms of details of the incident.

If the cops are talking to you...you shouldn't be talking to them.

Yes, yes...I know...

It's a self defense incident, and you aren't a criminal...and my advice may be fine for the people I represent all the time...

Whatever.

If the cops are looking at you, it's not for any pleasant reason.

Whatever you have to say to them can be said once you either shut up & lawyer up from the outset or go with Ayoob's advice of the whole "Officer, I'm the one who called, thank G0D you are here...he dropped a knife over that way and you want to talk to the guy in the red leather mini skirt & high heels because he saw the whole thing, and I don't feel comfortable saying more till I talk to an attorney..."

Otherwise, you run the risk of rambling on and setting yourself up for more trouble than you can imagine.

Less people get in trouble for shutting up than they do for talking.

If you wait till you are under arrest to lawyer up, you waited to long.
 

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Public defenders are appointed in many cases on the financial constraints of the defendant AND the seriousness of the crime.

If you are a guy who earns low/mid-low income with a wife and a kid who was involved in a shooting...you are probably getting a public defender - and a senior PD at that.

They need to avoid ineffective assistance of counsel claims on appeal, and courts are starting to kick states in the rear for appointing inexperienced lawyers, drunks or overburdened PD to cases.

In shootings, many times they will contract the case out to a private attorney on a list and pay him for the work. Maybe not his usual rate...but he know he will get a check from the state for the work, and that means a lot.

If you can afford a lawyer, yeah, you will have to pay, but if you don't, you aren't screwed.
 

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FWIW-
check around, there are specialists in this area (check with local CCW instructors or the NRA rep).
IMO many do not require a retainer, unless the sh$t hits the fan. Its a comfort to know you have a skilled practitioner lined up BEFORE you need one. Then, if it comes to representation vs money, I have no physical possesions I would not sell for retaining my liberty if it comes to that. Think about MITCHELLCT s post and others here where a good shoot goes bad AFTER the shoot. It isnt just what you say/not say, its all the way down the line. Criminal court is just the first stop. You may end up being sued in another court for damages.
Then think about how many lawyers are out there that are NOT skilled in this area of the law or have solid case law experience and contacts, experts etc. I dont know about you, but the boyscouts always taught us to "be prepared". Sheez, afterall, you hang out here, read all the magazines, read post after post, practice with your weapon (you do practice, right?), eagerly study load information, try different weapons, etc etc (have a stash of holsetrs and arms that just didnt cut it... :)-)) and then make a decision to potentially utilize deadly force/weapon and yet you dont take the time to seek beforehand a decent attorney?
Just my $0.02 That does not make sense my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm of the school of thought that says, "We need a lawyer that's on our side when we need it."
I also think that the situaton will be the base of the need of a lawyer. One of three things. A simple draw and dude runs or he surrenders. Two, shots fired without a fatality or three, shots fired and death. If a shot is fired I'm gonna have legal council not for the criminal side but the civil. Folks are sue happy in our world - even the bad guys.
Prepaid Legal seems to be an option for me. For less than $20 a months you got some legal insurance for anything you need...

I've got a good one in line but curious what you all thought.

Good points. Keep it going.
 

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RE: Retainers - Not needed until you want to hire the guy. Retainers buy a block of time and that is priced depending on the situation.

Shooting someone after they took a slice at you is one thing.

If that someone happens to be a 14 year old (5'10", 235 lbs...but 14 yo...) then it's something else.

Doing either in your front yard...v doing it in a park...

Doing it in County A were it's open season on thugs v. County B were they don't cotton to people shooting other people at all...

You won't know how much the lawyers time is worth till you get their, so therefore paying a $1,500 retainer could buy you 10 hours at $150/hr...15 hours at $100/hr...or 3 hours at $500/hr.
 

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What you NEED to think about is PRE-draw cover(your butt)age.

IOW, what do you need to do NOW to protect you in the event of "IF I ever have to. . ."

Go talk to your homeowners insurance agent. Get an umbrella policy to cover you in the event of a shooting. The policy will cover your legal fees and representation. It will also cover damages in the event you are found liable in a civil matter up to the policy limits. No homeowner? Go talk to your renters insurance agent. Or your auto insurance agent.

If nothing available otherwise, go talk to the NRA. They have policies for this type of thing.

BTW, "prepaid legal" isn't going to be much assistance. You will be hard pressed to find a "prepaid legal" attorney who will take the case. Which means you will be out there hunting for a lawyer after paying for your "prepaid legal" anyway. Nor does it cover damages. Which could potentially be in the millions.
 

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Just my $0.02 worth....

Good idea thinking about it now, but consider this:

I'd explain the situation once and then I'd ask if I am "being charged at this time". If they say yes, or waffle (no clear answer), I would then "lawyer up".

After that, it's Name, Rank, Serial Number time.

Then, well, I like the idea of having the NRA or a shared lawyer on hand...
But I think you have the scenario in reverse order. I'd explain through a lawyer first. Once it's out of your mouth you can't take it back. You can easily get the name of a good lawyer and have it in your cell phone. You don't need to pay them in advance of anything. Maybe a visit so they know who you are but that shouldn't cost anything. I have two that I have emailed, never visited.
 

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Attorneys, cops, charges, holding cells--what's important is being alive to face the aftermath of the gunfight. I'll take that over being dead and declared "innocent!"
 

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After 911 and lock jaw (keeping my mouth shut). I will then call an attorney. I have a couple of friends who are business attorneys and can recommend if need be.
 

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Attorneys, cops, charges, holding cells--what's important is being alive to face the aftermath of the gunfight. I'll take that over being dead and declared "innocent!"
I find this sort of post irresponsible.

What you are saying, is that if you are ever in a shooting situation, you will take whatever comes along afterwards just because you are glad to have survived. In the meantime you will do nothing to protect yourself except troll around on internet forums.

Well, bankruptcy no longer fully discharges your debts. That means when/if you are found civilly liable you will likely lose your home and your finances as well as starting to pay monthly for the rest of your life to those who sued you as well as your attorney. Did you know that defense in a civil suit can cost over $100,000? No money? No problem, defend yourself. If you can. And, your spouse can be held liable for YOUR debts as well through your marriage if you live in a community property state. Kiss your family harmony goodbye in any event.

Criminal prosecution is slightly different. Yes, you can get a public defender appointed in your case if you can't afford an attorney. Our jails and prisons are full of folks who went that route. Here's the real kicker. Just because you were criminally prosecuted doesn't mean that you can't be civilly sued. And juries just love to vote against folks who are in prison at the time.

Insurance is cheap. If you carry, you should have some.
 

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Post-Incident Statement Card

I have this printed in my wallet. I'm also a member of the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network.
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Dear Officer: If I have given this to you, I have unfortunately had to do what was necessary to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrators(s). I will point out witnesses and evidence.

As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation.

Thank-you. Printed on_____________
 
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