[bornlucky]

i recently joined this forum and find it very interested, knowledgeable, and entertaining. The one issue that sticks with me is the issue of when to use your firearm. I sit and read many encounters that members here face and wonder why do they put themselves in those situations. I personally would not get in any situation that does not concern my family and myself. I feel you have to look at it from the point that you do not know all the information, you are seeing it from the moment you arrived. Who knows what happened before you came into the picture. Also, I feel that before we started CC it would have been a fist fight, now that we have a weapon we feel that we have to use it if some one gets in our face.

 

[Cold Warrior]

A few months or so ago, a fellow retiree and I decided to take and pass a 20-hour CCW class, this old friend and I started shooting again. I started buying, reading and studying these gun magazines, if only for those "it happened to me" and CCW stories, like those in this latest issue of "American Handgunner". Now, we go to [Bill Goodman] gun shows and stores, once more, talking with gun lovers and others, scanning the net to get what we can get, i.e., news, views and gun reviews on YOU TUBE. But, a word of warning, you too can sit and waste a lot of time online, not that this "research" hurts.

 

[C9H13NO3]

Some people may feel a moral obligation to help others who cannot help themselves. I personally will only get involved if it is to defend myself, MY property, or someone I'm with. As far as the fist fight thing, I'm not going to pull my gun on someone for things I would punch someone for. I doubt anyone else here would either. I also won't get in a fist fight if I'm carrying, which is most of the time. If I'm in a situation where I need to fight to defend myself, I will go to fists if it's an unarmed person attacking me and I know they wouldn't be able to severely injure me or take my life, but if they are armed or look like they would absolutely destroy me in a fist fight (disparity of force), I'm sticking to my guns.

 

[Slim_45]

If I'm in a situation where I need to fight to defend myself, I will go to fists if it's an unarmed person attacking me and I know they wouldn't be able to severely injure me or take my life

The only problem with this is that they may not be armed UNTIL they get the upper hand on you during the fight & you may end up looking down the barrel of your own gun :gah:
That is what i worry about while carrying & i must say it has helped my "hot-head" condition alot as i wont put myself in that situation if i can help it now :yup:

 

[C9H13NO3]

Good point I hadn't thought about really, but if you were to draw instead on someone unarmed who is attacking you and there's no disparity of force, you may be taking a trip to jail.

 

[StevePVB]

I don't think "disparity" is a valid test. I know there are plenty of folks smaller than me that can take me (besides, I'm 61). Also, how can you be sure the little guy doesn't have a weapon? The question I think boils down to whether you feel threatened.

 

[jbum]

A fist is a lethal weapon JMHO. I'm to old to get in a fist fight if I feel my family or myself is in danger you can count on me presenting a firearm.

 

[harley2007]

I feel like this....If I am carrying I am more responsible as I am more keenly aware of my "responsability that comes with carrying". For another way to put it, I am a far more aware driver on my motorcycle, watching what is going on behind, left, right and in front of me than when I am in my car, which is a much more "passive" experience to me...so with a gun, I am "keenly aware", and without, unfortunately, I am more passive....I hope this made sense!

So Idont go looking for trouble or looking to help, but I am more in tune to what is going on.

 

[ladman]

The only problem with this is that they may not be armed UNTIL they get the upper hand on you during the fight & you may end up looking down the barrel of your own gun :gah:
That is what i worry about while carrying & i must say it has helped my "hot-head" condition alot as i wont put myself in that situation if i can help it now :yup:

Excellent point. Knowing I'm armed has made me look at confrontations or putting myself in a confrontational situation, differently. I'm more apt to walk away from something I may not have before I started carrying.

By the way, one of the points my CCW instructor repeated a few times was, if you have to defend yourself or someone else and fatally wound or wound someone, but are cleared by law, there will be a civil suit no matter what and it will cost a whole lot of money to defend and if you lose, could cost you everything you own. That wouldn't stop me from defending myself, if I feel an "imminent threat", but not over a fist fight. Better to flee than fight sometimes.

 

[cvhoss]

.............I personally would not get in any situation that does not concern my family and myself.............

If you can live with that, then that's between you and your conscience. Personally, I find it hard to understand how anyone can say unequivocally that they would not step in to help someone unknown to them. While I'm not going to step in between two groups of gangbangers going at each other, I know that if I saw someone severely beating a child, I'd step in. I know that if I saw three hoods beating down an old lady, I'd step in. I'd do this whether I was armed or not. I know I'd do this because I've intervened twice in my life to protect others and both times were long before Kansas had CC. If I have to defend myself in the courts, then so be it but I don't want to have to live with myself if an innocent died or was severely injured if I could have prevented it.

Hoss

 

[Slim_45]

Well "C9H13NO3" i guess the best medicine for this is too try not to have to get into a fist fight in the first place, but the big question remains on what the best & most legal way to handle it may be
Maybe an LEO can give us some good advice if your all the sudden faced with an explosive situation while carrying
My plan i guess (whether or not its good) is too
1. try & avoid it all togeather
2. if they press the issue with me & dont calm down, pull your shirt over your pistol while gripping it firmly & telling them I dont want want trouble any more than you do right now so BACK AWAY
3. If they are feeling stupid after that :blink:

 

[TX-JB]

Good point I hadn't thought about really, but if you were to draw instead on someone unarmed who is attacking you and there's no disparity of force, you may be taking a trip to jail.

In Tx you can use the threat of deadly force (pulling your gun) as a threat of force...so, in TX you'd be covered...

 

[Slim_45]

In Tx you can use the threat of deadly force (pulling your gun) as a threat of force...so, in TX you'd be covered...

God bless Texas :35:

 

[ctm]

By the way, one of the points my CCW instructor repeated a few times was, if you have to defend yourself or someone else and fatally wound or wound someone, but are cleared by law, there will be a civil suit no matter what and it will cost a whole lot of money to defend and if you lose, could cost you everything you own. That wouldn't stop me from defending myself, if I feel an "imminent threat", but not over a fist fight. Better to flee than fight sometimes.

That depends on what state you live in.
In Missouri if the shooting is judged "justifiable", you are also exonerated from any possibility of civil suits...
You need to know YOUR States laws.

 

[fox2102]

The way i look at it is my situational awareness is my primary self defense. A good percent of the self defense stories I read involve the CCer doing something stupid to get themselves in the situation. For example there have been several that have let their mouth and hot head escalate the situation or not leaving an area that seems unsafe. Personally I will use my weapon only when I fail to use my situational awareness or if i see a situation where it's needed. If i see someone on top of another with a knife. Regardless of the unknowns it's not hard to get an idea of what's going on in a situation. If it's a non life threatening situation then I dont get involved but in a life threatening situation i would feel morally obligated to step in

 

[Stevew]

The people that put their self in that situation do it because they do not have a choice. I like to say that I wouldn't step in. Why put my family in that situation. But then again I know I could not stand by and watch something like the kid in Chicago that got beat to death with boards and what not.

 

[Shock an Awe]

I try to avoid all altercation. I would use my weapon for situation that were only life threaten or if others were in grave danger. I would never turn my back on a human being in need. Thats why I work were I work. BG are different these days not like in the past, they will kill you and your family members and not have a care in the world. Just watch some of the shows about gangbangers and see and listen how they think, you can't even comprehend.

 

[MadMac]

I don't think anyone here would simply walk away from a group of hoods beating down an old lady, or an urban gang wailing on a school kid with a plank. Debating this issue is like the people who debate abortion by citing cases of rape or incest. Don't let the miniscule probabilities obscure the big picture.

I have seen folks here who think a one-day course, some cash (tax) for the county sheriff, and a $400 handgun makes them a mini-LEO or a super-hero-in-waiting. Personally, I refuse to use the oft-cited term "sheepdog" and I most certainly find the epithet "sheep" (as applied to non-carrying citizens) silly and arrogant. Your neighbors and friends may perceive their risks differently from you and choose not to carry. That doesn't make them fools.

If you think of yourself as a "sheepdog" for the local populace, you are asking for potential legal and most certainly moral problems. Keep the mindset that your ccw is for you and your family, and only if you are put in mortal danger by another human being or animal. Anything outside that strict interpretation is an opportunity to make a decision you may regret the rest of your life.

 

[rottkeeper]

I'm with Hoss on this one, I could not turn and walk away from someone in trouble. I have in the past helped people in need and would do it again.
To each their own but I could not sleep if I witnessed something and did nothing to help. Each case is different but to do absolutely nothing goes against my most basic instinct to help.

 

[bornlucky]

I to will not let anyone abuse an individual. A senior citizen, young child, it is not right that they can come to harm. I am a transpant from NYC, and you members know how NYC and CC goes. Now, I live in Missouri, and things are a whole lot different here! I recently received my CC permit and I take the whole behavior serious. This is the reason a posted, I wanted to get different views!