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I had a feeling that most pistol designs were driven more by marketing, and less by actual purpose. The design of the RAP and newer XD line come to mind.
 

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IHMO, some gun-design features are akin to fishing lure features. They're not there to attract fish, but rather to more effectively catch... fishermen! :image035:
 

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IHMO, some gun-design features are akin to fishing lure features. They're not there to attract fish, but rather to more effectively catch... fishermen! :image035:
There is definitely a function AND form crowd.
Like one forum member once said, life is too short to shoot ugly guns :yup:

I think as far as Kimber's new K6s is concerned, their design was based more off what works for other tried and true snub makers. Although the masses clamoring for six shots in a small snub, like the old Colt Agents, might have been a factor.
 

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PAc, I haven't had the opportunity to shoot the Kimber K6. Yet I AM...lookin' forward to it! :yup:
 
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So if I understand this right, this author is so smart that he was able to figure out that the gun industries priority is to make money?
 
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A Camel is a Race Horse designed by a committee applies. Unless you've been involved in product development you have no idea of the politics involved. The key players marketing/sales, customer feedback, outside consultants and engineering/manufacturing. Each group has their biases thus input. A firearms example would be the S&W Sigma a first attempt to compete with Glock, followed by their collaboration with Walther the second attempt and finally the third attempt MP series which appears to be successful.
 

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Not necessarily what one might think. Grant Cunningham has written something to consider:

Do gun designers have your best interest in mind? - www.GrantCunningham.com Personal security training and advice - www.GrantCunningham.com Personal security training and advice - [url]www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com[/url]

For you guys who have tried and like the Kimber revolver, there may be some very good reasons.
The author got it partly right. As with almost all product design, marketing and brand managers watch closely not only what is selling but what their competition is doing. Most of the time, at least with large manufacturers there is very little innovation involved. The design normally consists of taking another company's successful design and changing the design just enough so that there are no law suits. Design patents are for the most part worthless but a company can be sued for stealing intellectual property or a product or part that is actually patented.

The product designers then normally submit a design to research and development for refinement while at about the same time, a budget analysis is made. This is where the design must be produced for x dollars per unit in order to be profitable. From cost estimating the design goes to engineering. It is the job of the engineer to bring in the product at the target price. This is also where the designers dream may turn into something totally different. Prototypes often require changes in materials, elimination of too many machining operations, elimination of hand fitting and assembly, etc. in order to produce the product at or below a target price point. Finally there may be some QC and testing if required. The product is then packed and shipped. The packaging of course is also important for marketing and sales. The final packaging cost and advertising can sometimes amount to almost the same cost of the manufactured product.
 

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Well, grant got one thing wrong if the K6 his ideas of what a revo should be. It's got rubber grips on it, and rubber grips might be great for shooting, but for concealment purposes and speedy presentations, they are lacking.

Rubber sticky type/shock absorbing grips tend to grab clothing and not let the shirt fall back over it naturally. Reach or bend for something, the shirt rides up and it has difficulty falling back into normal wear mode. How many times have we heard this happen in public at Wally world etc.

No thanks on rubber/sticky type grips on small frame revos.
 

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Well, it's probably unquestionable that Glock has the most successful design, in terms of market penetration, of any handgun in the last 50 years. What went into it?

1. The requirements for a military handgun drafted by the Austian Ministry of Defense
2. Input from Europe's top military, police and civilian handgun experts
3. Modern manufacturing methods
4. Some brilliant engineering

And voila! The Glock 17 won the Austrian contract in the same year it was designed, and its various iterations in other chamberings and sizes spread like a virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

Of course the 1911 followed a similar path, and is still around over 100 years later.

I think a lot of products on the market now are simply trying new features in an attempt to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market, and of course to satisfy company lawyers.
 
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Well, it's probably unquestionable that Glock has the most successful design, in terms of market penetration, of any handgun in the last 50 years. What went into it?

1. The requirements for a military handgun drafted by the Austian Ministry of Defense
2. Input from Europe's top military, police and civilian handgun experts
3. Modern manufacturing methods
4. Some brilliant engineering

And voila! The Glock 17 won the Austrian contract in the same year it was designed, and its various iterations in other chamberings and sizes spread like a virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

Of course the 1911 followed a similar path, and is still around over 100 years later.

I think a lot of products on the market now are simply trying new features in an attempt to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market, and of course to satisfy company lawyers.
I would cite the Glock 17 as an excellent example of marketing ploys trumping ergonomic and other practical considerations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, grant got one thing wrong if the K6 his ideas of what a revo should be. It's got rubber grips on it, and rubber grips might be great for shooting, but for concealment purposes and speedy presentations, they are lacking.

Rubber sticky type/shock absorbing grips tend to grab clothing and not let the shirt fall back over it naturally. Reach or bend for something, the shirt rides up and it has difficulty falling back into normal wear mode. How many times have we heard this happen in public at Wally world etc.

No thanks on rubber/sticky type grips on small frame revos.
If you like the Kimber, thank Grant.

If you don't like the Kimber, blame Grant.
 

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Well, grant got one thing wrong if the K6 his ideas of what a revo should be. It's got rubber grips on it, and rubber grips might be great for shooting, but for concealment purposes and speedy presentations, they are lacking.

Rubber sticky type/shock absorbing grips tend to grab clothing and not let the shirt fall back over it naturally. Reach or bend for something, the shirt rides up and it has difficulty falling back into normal wear mode. How many times have we heard this happen in public at Wally world etc.

No thanks on rubber/sticky type grips on small frame revos.
He's got wood on some of the models, but they are still boot grips.
I can't say I'd want to shoot a wood boot grip in 357. Probably why I think my SP101 is more comfortable to shoot.
I think my K6s lloks like a cross between an SP101 and an Airweight 642.
If Colt still made a snub, he might have borrowed something from them, too. lol
 

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He's got wood on some of the models, but they are still boot grips.
I can't say I'd want to shoot a wood boot grip in 357. Probably why I think my SP101 is more comfortable to shoot.
I think my K6s lloks like a cross between an SP101 and an Airweight 642.
If Colt still made a snub, he might have borrowed something from them, too. lol
Got no issues with the boot grips, it's the rubber grips that have always left the gun/grip exposed when the shirts won't settle back to concealed.
 

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Got no issues with the boot grips, it's the rubber grips that have always left the gun/grip exposed when the shirts won't settle back to concealed.
Correct. Rubber is grippy. I never had a problem with my LCR when carried IWB though. Probably because I had the "tent effect" going at AIWB :wink:
My thoughts were that they went rubber because of the extra small grip to help with recoil. Like Ruger's LCR. One of their models anyway came with Hogue boot grips. I'm not sure what material S&W uses on their 642, which also uses a boot grip.
 

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Well, it's probably unquestionable that Glock has the most successful design, in terms of market penetration, of any handgun in the last 50 years. What went into it?

1. The requirements for a military handgun drafted by the Austian Ministry of Defense
2. Input from Europe's top military, police and civilian handgun experts
3. Modern manufacturing methods
4. Some brilliant engineering

And voila! The Glock 17 won the Austrian contract in the same year it was designed, and its various iterations in other chamberings and sizes spread like a virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

Of course the 1911 followed a similar path, and is still around over 100 years later.

I think a lot of products on the market now are simply trying new features in an attempt to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market, and of course to satisfy company lawyers.
Pretty amazing for some of the most butt ugly guns on the planet :smile:
 

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Pretty amazing for some of the most butt ugly guns on the planet :smile:
Similar to how the ar's look butt ugly when compared to a real rifle with wood furniture? lol
 

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I would cite the Glock 17 as an excellent example of marketing ploys trumping ergonomic and other practical considerations.
Well, I don't know if I'd call it a "marketing ploy" so much as a genuinely different approach. It did perform very well in Austrian trials, which did involve very practical considerations, from a military point of view (though ergonomics wasn't amongst them, except for controls being left-hand friendly).

Though the original ergos were fairly awful, I think it's probably due to the fact that the military requirements didn't mention it, so they made it close enough while still being easy to mold. Given injection molding technology at the time, a fancy rounded shape probably would have added significantly to the tooling cost.

In the US, it gained traction for reasons that weren't really practical OR marketing-related. Miami cops wanted a semi-auto, and the department wanted nothing except DAO, due to Janet Reno's lawsuit over an allegedly cocked revolver in 1982. The Glock was the only eligible auto classified as DAO at the time, so Glock it was. If Miami hadn't adopted it, it may have taken a long time for other large departments to take it seriously.
 
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