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I am posting this in "Tactical Scenarios" to get everyones thoughts on what they would do in the following situation based on the fact pattern below, in the article in the link, and on the video link:

You came out of a nearby door, and the gang immediately noticed you, but retreat was impossible because the door locked behind you, or;

You turned a corner approximately 25 feet away, and the gang immediately noticed you

I haven't posed many, if any, scenarios, so if I've done something incorrectly, please accept my apologies in advance, and make note of any assumptions you utilize. :embarassed:

Here's the link to the page, click on "Graphic Survelliance Video"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/19/earlyshow/main1511435.shtml

The article is copyrighted, so you can read it on the linked page.

This is really chilling stuff - wild animals - wolves.........
 

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Well, as in many of the tactical scenarios we discuss there are always a lot of if's. But based on your description I would immediately put hand on my gun, but not draw (here's one of those if's), if they weren't making a rapid advance toward me, but would make it readily apparent I was armed. While attempting to keep a wall at my back I would start heading for a public area. Also would if possible simultaneously call 911 and request assistance.

As to the video, well, it's all about being aware of what's going on around you. The attack was rapid and violent and wouldn't give you much response time unless you were aware something was up. I'm speculating here but if they were already pounding on me, I might hit the ground lying on my strong side making it more difficult for them to see me drawing my gun and if possible take out as many of the sob's as I could. But like we all preach to each other, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 

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fight to the best of my ability with what ever weapons avalible. With a mob mentality , if ya drop a couple, the rest may scatter. They are looking for helpless prey, not a battle.
 

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I remember growing up in Harlem (NYC) the mantra being if a group attacked you, go for the the leader and/or biggest person and be merciless in your counterattack....if that person goes down, the others might back off of you.
 

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Wow! The attack happened so quick in the video It didn't look like the victim had any time to react! If a tactical retreat was impossible I would have no choice but to put my hand on my gun while issuing them verbal commands and see If that deters them. At the same time with my other hand I would be reaching for my cell phone to dial 911. I would escalate it further based on the mobs actions. If I was on the ground like the guy in the video was, I would take this as an immediate threat to my life and would draw and take out as many IDIOTS as possible until the attack subsided. I may die ,but at the least ,It will teach the living members of the mob not to screw with a person that has a CCW!!!!!
 

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as was said ...gotta be aware before it gets to that point.
i'd guess there was a point out of camera that he knew they were coming and had a few seconds to react. heightened awareness coulda extended that a few more seconds.
10 after me...and i know they arent handing out girl scout cookies...lead will fly real fast as i ran/moved to cover and i'd be hoping i had carried an extra mag! shot placement would be critical with lotsa targets and the fewer rounds i have in my 45.
here is where a hi-cap would shine
i agree with "they arent expecting a battle" also, thats why they have the overwhelming numbers. in most cases when its 10 vs 1 , its over before it starts.
and thats in a patrolled parking lot, under lights, might as well be broad daylight there. and people still ask "why do ya think ya need a gun?" geeez
 

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Knife or gun- kill the first one as up-close and personal and brutally as possible. I'm not politically correct enough to have my butt parked in the little go cart, head down, when I'm a minority-shade, in the area. I'd be willing to bet that if the fellow throwing the first punch drew his arm back, with meat hanging off it, or had his brains gracing his buddies clothes, the rest would not have been so enthusiatic to party.
 

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This stuff is scary - very scary.

What I am thinking here is - let's say acparmed is coming out from work (security) - he cannot be armed at work tho he carries otherwise. WTH can he do even if awareness gives him a brief thinking time?

Just maybe a blade here could be useful if attention given to main initial aggressor - but there again - if things do not go your way it'll be reversed and your blade or a blade will then be used on you.

With numbers like these and late teens who are pretty near peak physical strength - frankly I see it as all but no win.

Should this occur against a carrying CCW - maybe whole different story and I doubt it would be hard to claim being in fear of one's life, whether other weapons where shown or not.
 

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P95Carry said:
This stuff is scary - very scary.

Just maybe a blade here could be useful if attention given to main initial aggressor - but there again - if things do not go your way it'll be reversed and your blade or a blade will then be used on you.

I doubt it would be hard to claim being in fear of one's life, whether other weapons where shown or not.
Absolute "arm-chair-commando", but from what I have seen and run- no. If you hammer-fist a guy with a small fixed/legal folder 3-4",his friends will want to disengage before he realizes how bad its going to be. If you go head/chest and fast- he'll be going down pretty soon. If your grip is that weak on a knife, you'd better hand over your pistol, and hope they're nice to you.

Point 2: there is no question as to fear for your life, now that this vid is out. The little punks have now been publicized. The initial victims are in a much tougher situation- all they would know is that Maynard just laid into them- and at that stage, you're correct: you would only be aware of one, unarmed attacker. This is why I really like my Disciple, and want a Clinch Pic- when you realize other legs are around you, you can start bringing folks "down to your level" with it.
 

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P95Carry said:
This stuff is scary - very scary.

What I am thinking here is - let's say acparmed is coming out from work (security) - he cannot be armed at work tho he carries otherwise. WTH can he do even if awareness gives him a brief thinking time?
Coming off work is not so worrysome where I am at the Hilton. We have employee parking in a garage that has a secure entry gate. My Kimber is in the trunk and is the first thing I grab when arriving at my car.

While on duty in one of the parking lots or garages does worry me that something like this could happen.

In this scenario it's likely that I would have kept a distance between me and this group upon seeing their approach. Having noticed their rowdyness I would have called for a back-up or if not time for that, have called a 444 on the radio (Officer needs help). :aargh4: I'd have back-up coming out of the workwork in seconds. :yup:

Yes, I carry my Emerson CQC-7 with me and I would have done some carving if they had gotten to me like they did to the poor guy in the video. :yup:

This occured in the rear of the MGM on the strip. The guy suffered a broken jaw and several busted ribs. Metro will find everyone involved in this melee. They are incensed that this happened. One guy has already been identified.
 

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With Gun... take out largest closest ...next largest closest..and so on putting many obstacles between me & next tgt. Call 911 when possible..

No gun:frown: Utilize the environment as much as possible(items fm back of cart) DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS POSSIBLE while using the available obstacles. Call 911 when possible..
 

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Disparity of force

It doesn't matter if they are armed or not...a gang of this size has the means (physical strength and cumulative strenght in numbers), along with the intent (the fact that they are attacking or about to attack you) and the capability of inflicting serious harm or death.


In most jurisdictions this is known as disparity of force. The prudent thing to do IMHO would be to loudly and strongly yell "stop or I'll shoot" as I slowly retreated. If the attack progressed, I would do as others have stated and take as many out as I possibly could until the threat ceased.
 

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I'd put a few bucks that one shot, and they'd scatter, unless they were armed as well. Cover would be important. I know "warning shots" are a big NO NO, but if there was a safe way to get one off, I think it'd be a wake up for them and they'd be gone. You could just say you missed.
 

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wow those guys are such tuff guys, it takes 6 of them to gang up and beat one person up, such tuff tuff guys, and he hit him in the back of the head with no warning, wow these guys must feel like they are such bad $*(%#!!!!
now its our turn to beat the living crap outta them, only have them tied up and do not allow them to move, and see how they like it!
 

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fitznig said:
wow those guys are such tuff guys, it takes 6 of them to gang up and beat one person up, such tuff tuff guys, and he hit him in the back of the head with no warning, wow these guys must feel like they are such bad $*(%#!!!!
now its our turn to beat the living crap outta them, only have them tied up and do not allow them to move, and see how they like it!
There weren't 6 of them fitz, there were 15 of them.

Disparity of force is the correct answer. I would have gotten as many as I could until they began to scatter. I carry 15 rounds of 45 ACP, I could have gotten about half of them before I ran dry. Once the rest run just sit and wait for the cavalry.
 

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The "warning shot" should be directly into the nearest threat. I seriously doubt there'd be a need for a follow-up. Then again, I routinely carry 40 rounds of .40 S&W, just in case they want to hold a "group discussion" about my actions.

They did a great job of providing potential victims with a more than a "reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm," by showing up in that video.

mm
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Las Vegas Bad Guys - Caught?

acparmed said:
Metro will find everyone involved in this melee. They are incensed that this happened. One guy has already been identified.
acparmed - what's the status on the BG's? I heard they got a couple of them - have the rest been rounded up?

Is this the gang that would storm convenience stores in mass to steal and pillage?
 

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Metro Has 7 of them in custody.

The DA has said that he will not tolerate this kind of thing happening again so........he has decided to push every charge he can find against them including adding the 'Hate crime' 'Gang crime' enhancement which will double the penality for conviction.
 
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