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Discussion Starter #1
Just thought of something I haven't seen discussed anywhere before.


I have heard of a few incident’s recently where the 911 op was giving the person on the phone bad advice. Most are pretty well trained but let’s face it, you can’t train for every eventuality. Having to get your information from some voice in a headset, isn’t the fastest or surest way to judge a hostile situation either.

Here is the scenario. You are CCW, and the proverbial fecal matter impacts the self oscilating air relocating device. You dial 911, give a quick overview to the 911 operator. The operator advises, (or commands) you to do one thing, and you do what you think is right anyway. (After all you much better prepared than the average person in the same situation, not to mention you are on site, and can better understand the situation as it unfolds, and your life is the one on the line not Mr or Mrs 911 operator’s .)


Ok here is the question, even if things turn out well, how does this affect you legally, and with regards to civil liability?
 

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I would not let anyone decide for me what I need to do (especially from another location) . I would not worry about 911 telling you what to do , they are not there. Yuo ned to decide the best course of action to get out alive.
 

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The 911 operator won't have enough info from me to render any advice. If I am involved in a fight for my life I'll likely dial 911 and drop the phone to fight. They'll dispatch police immediately and they will keep the line open recording everything. Once the fight is over I will get back on the line to articulate the situation. The only advice I would worry about from a 911 operator is first aid. Even then VA protects me so long as I stay within the bounds of my training.

-Scott-
 

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I don't have that problem...I don't have a cell phone...however, if in the life or death situation, I'll have to take out the BG and use his cell phone! :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have already made up my mind to do exactly that, Rocky.

I was wondering how it will affect what happens after the fact.
Like all defense scenarios' I am not worried about it, but I feel it is to our advantage to mull these things over in advance instead of taking the chance getting bit on the butt by them later.

For instance, if it turns out that it can effectively be used against you in a civil, lawsuit by bg's relatives, I would rather know it now.

Another factor is in some places the 911 op may or may not have leo status of some type.
 

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I am not sure but - even if phone message is taped, as I believe is normal - the argument for me would always be - ''you were not there''. I do not either think a 911 operator has any legal standing when it comes to issuance of orders or instructions - rather I would view them as recommendations.

I have tried to imagine being a 911 op' - and ya know - it could be pretty scary, trying to advise in all sorts of tricky situations - you'd have to think on your feet and I am sure it'd be impossible to read all situations with such clarity that your advise would always be anything like close to what was needed.

Bottom line - I am doing what circumstances dictate - to best of my ability - and if that means surviving, then well - time later to try and justify it all.
 

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In my state the 911 operators are trained, but not LEO's. Even a LEO cannot effectively assess a situation over the phone. I will dial and drop the phone if needed and let em record what I say and do. I cannot see any juror thinking you should listen to 911 operator advice. I have heard some of em advise to not fight back, just wait for PD. As long as you follow the legal restraints for self protection set by your state you should be safe enough.
 

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I recall a time before 911.

I always called direct, or had the personal phone number of a LEO I called.

I do not know the legal ramifications. I do know more than one case where 911 was NOT a good use of time. One example was my neighbor, her son just released from jail came to vindicate the fact Mom would not "bail him out , or help him".

While "trying" to get thru to 911 her son and friends busted out the front window to gain entry. She hung up on 911, speed dialed me. I speed dialed the LEO that lived in residence.

When the fight broke out, and I was aiming at a BG who was aiming at me, the LEO was blindsided and hit with a large stick. I yelled for the neighbor behind me to get his butt inside and call direct the < I rattled off the direct number> Po-po and "officer needs assistance".

I lived on the same level and next door to incident. One BG produced a gun and drew mine using brick staiwell for cover. When 4 LEO cars come in with screeching tires, and guns drawn, and the one comes up the steps and says "drop it" ,you drop it and hit the deck. You get handcuffed and wait for the LEO that knows you to ID you and sort matters out.

Them 870 muzzles are really BIG from the viewing end btw.

Just one experience, and one reason I call direct, I do not call 911.

About 2 weeks ago I "had" to call the Po-po, while at mom's house- I called direct. I met the officer at another location. I did NOT need for the police cars to arrive at mom' s house. These "youths" will and DO retailiate when the law is called.

911 would have brought them to mom's house. Mom was gone, the "youths" didn't know that, nor would have cared.

The officers were great, and fully understood my actions and reasonings. I was given another phone number to dial direct if I should ever need.

Sometimes I have a hard time giving up the old ways that always worked for me...
 

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Steve - I actually keep my local barracks phone # in my cell - for this very reason ...... I have I am afraid little faith in 911 as a means of summoning aid.

That of course once again reinforces what we all know - it is down to us for most part - when caught at the ''sharp end''.
 

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All 911 calls are taped so be careful what you say to the 911 operator. It can and will be used against you in court if they feel the need. That being said, I have never heard of a 911 operator being a LEO, and if they were, I doubt they would have much standing. I would tell them what I needed and simply hang up if I didn't need their direct input into the situation. If you are holding someone at gunpoint, you might, however, want to describe yourself and the clothes you are wearing if you choose to hang up on them.
 

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When --it hits the fan,nobody knows more about my situation than I do. Nobody that I could call is more prepared to make decissions about how I should react to said situation, than I am. Nobody has the mindset that I have. Nobody that is gonna respond is as good of a shot as I am. Nobody cares about me and my family as much as I do. I am responsible for my own safety. That's why I am the one carring the weapon. That is why I chose to carry the weapon. Making a phone call to someone that will help me with my situation is the last thing on my mind. What the lawyers will think about me or say about me,will be,way,way,down at the botton of my list of priorities,at this particular time. I am trained to handle the situation. I will handle the situation. Don't know 'bout you guys but I refuse to overcompilcate this.--------
 

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I would advise against this Scott & Rocky

"I'll likely dial 911 and drop the phone to fight. They'll dispatch police immediately and they will keep the line open recording everything. Once the fight is over I will get back on the line to articulate the situation".

What you say, and they record, can and will be used against you etc., etc..

You are under no obligation to keep the line open or take their advice. I would state my name and address of where I am, I would state I need police and/or an ambulance then, depending on the situation, I may tell them I'm under attack, then hang up. If you use a land based phone they should automatically have your address, if a cell phone make sure you state it clearly as they will not be able to locate you without it. I may repeat the address twice. You do not want to give the authorities any opportunity to use what you say in a paniced state of mind against you.

It is sad that we have to think this way but the lawyers are ruining this country and that is the way it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sheesh! I already said twice that I assume everyone would do what they felt they had to do, and the 911 operator can take a flying leap as long as they roll out some units.



The question was, how would what they said verses what you did affect a court case?

"I'll likely dial 911 and drop the phone to fight. They'll dispatch police immediately and they will keep the line open recording everything. Once the fight is over I will get back on the line to articulate the situation".

What you say, and they record, can and will be used against you etc., etc..

You are under no obligation to keep the line open or take their advice. I would state my name and address of where I am, I would state I need police and/or an ambulance then, depending on the situation, I may tell them I'm under attack, then hang up. If you use a land based phone they should automatically have your address, if a cell phone make sure you state it clearly as they will not be able to locate you without it. I may repeat the address twice. You do not want to give the authorities any opportunity to use what you say in a paniced state of mind against you.
Good advice, one minor thing I would like to address though. If you have a "gps enabled" phone, you can leave the line open, and they will transmit the location withing a 100ft or thereabouts depending on the quality of the ssignal your phone can pick up from the sattelites. Your local 911 system may not have the equipment to read it though.
 

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What would you say if,when you go to trial, the prosecutor asks,"You had time to find your cell phone,pull it out of your pocket,open the cover and/or pull it out of its protective case,dial 911,wait for the emergency dispatcher to answer,say to you,"this is 911 emergency dispatch,what is your emergency?",tell her your problem,THEN you shot the aledged BG. Sir,If you had this much time, why didn't you try to escape. Why did you feel that you just had to shoot poor Mr. Jones ??------
 

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Ya know RSSZ - I have thought this several times and just not voiced it. Indeed - if things are truly ''in extremis'' - cell phone is last thing you'd expect on anyone's mind - apart that is from some witness/bystander.

If there was time to call then yeah - some questions are due - with the exception perhaps of the ''staircase incident'' - where it starts low key but escalates to point where lethal force just has to be employed, despite best efforts to de-escalate, at which time an open 911 line might actually help if it tapes the event sequence.

Excellent point to raise tho.
 

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In most places, 911 operators are not sworn officers and don't have any legal authority whatsoever. In some smaller places sworn officers may take turns rotating through dispatch, but how are you to know who is on the other side of the phone? Do what you need to do to protect yourself legally such as getting a lawyer in route and such. Don't worry about what an operator tells you.
 

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The obvious: if you are calling 911, you expect someone else to take care of the problem, or you are incapable of dealing with it yourself. Not to be rude, but (having worked EMS) if the situation is "unfolding", and you feel a strong urge to call 911, try masturbation; it will be more rewarding, and probably more helpful :eek: . (If dispatch can't get proper scene info and directions to responding UNITS (!!!), what do you expect them to do for you?!?- Call them for the bag and squeegie.)

If you call, you will be told to put away your weapon, lock yourself in a safe area, and in no way contest the assailant (until the operator hears his heavy breathing over the line). They are there to pacify you and render basic medical advice. Nothing else. Yes, you may encounter exceptions, but really hoping for that.....see 1st paragraph.

I will call 911 if I hear shots a block away, or after I've got someone stabilized by the roadside (MVA). No real reason to otherwise.....
 

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Rob72, I am in total agreement with your above post.(see my post above yours,#11) Here's a good one>>> You and your family are just about to get killed(or worse!!) by the BG's. You dial 911 and say,"I have a CCW permit.I have my pistol out now. The BG's are just about to kill me and my family. CAN I SHOOT THEM???? What would the 911 operators response be???------
 
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