Defensive Carry banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

What Is Wrong With Having a Gun With a Magazine Disconnect?

1 reading
74K views 71 replies 60 participants last post by  OD*  
#1 ·
A lot has been said recently, specifically with the premiere of the new Ruger LC9 about the gun having a magazine disconnect is a deal breaker. Why? Is the magazine disconnect really a bad feature? Is it not in fact, often a life saving feature?

Consider the fact that for decades, a large percentage of officers killed in the line of duty, are officers killed with their own gun after they were successfully disarmed during a gun grab situation. Whether the gun was snatched from their holster, or from their hands during a contact distance struggle, the end result was that they were immediately shot with their own gun once the suspect got control of it.

Many officers who survived being disarmed can attribute their survival to the fact that during the struggle for their gun, they managed to drop the magazine before the person wrestled the gun away from them, and thus prevented them from being murdered with the one bullet left in the chamber when the gun was turned against them. That is, those who have a gun with a magazine disconnect feature.

Many of those officers were then able to go for their back-up gun and then regain control of the situation. Others were able to subdue the person by other means. But the magazine disconnect allowed them to avoid being killed immediately after losing control of the gun when they were able to eject the magazine, thus allowing them time to go to other options.

Because of high incidence of officers killed with their own guns, today more and more officers are now trained in effective handgun retention techniques. However, a large population of officers still are either not trained in handgun retention, or are not very adept at their gun retention skills.

Okay, that speaks for police officers, but what about citizens who are ccw holders and carry a gun everyday? Or those who carry part time, when the mood suits them?

Consider the fact that statistics clearly show that most gunfights, civilian and LEO's alike take place within 5-7 feet. We can split hairs over the exact distance, as I don't have the stats right in front of me right now, but suffice it to say, up close and personal. And a great deal of shootouts occur at arms length, within 2-3 feet.

Many civilian gun carriers have never even heard of handgun retention, let alone been trained, or are adept at performing retention skills. If you carry a gun, you should ask yourself, "Is the possibility more likely that you may be involved in a struggle over your weapon during the midst of what will likely be your one and only deadly encounter? Or, is it more likely that you will be trying to reload your gun when the bad guy tries to overtake you, and forces you to fire that last bullet in the pipe while your magazine is out of your gun?" If you think the latter is the most likely situation, do you really think that in the overwhelming stress of the situation, you are really going to have one left in the pipe? Or, because of the startle effect of the whole situation, will you be pulling the trigger 4 or 5 times before you even realize your gun has run dry and the slide is locked back.

Sure a case can be made for being in the unique situation of needing to fire that one one bullet left in the pipe while the magazine is out of the gun during a reload. But, what is the real likelihood of that being the case as opposed to being in the middle of a struggle over possession of your gun?

Is a gun with a magazine disconnect really a deal breaker? Any thoughts on that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikemi1951
Save
#59 ·
Not a deal breaker for me. The only time I had one disabled was to improve the horrible trigger on a Browning HP.

Countless times I've read in gun magazines or books on the need to be able to fire while covering a BG and changing mags. Seriously,, this idea is in the realm of Hollywood fantasy.
 
#61 ·
Many officers who survived being disarmed can attribute their survival to the fact that during the struggle for their gun, they managed to drop the magazine before the person wrestled the gun away from them
Well the key word here is "officers." If you are LEO, you have a different set of problems to deal with, and among those considerations, a magazine disconnect safety might be a good feature. If you're a civilian, you have different problems to deal with.

To Bark'n - I think BigHat has an important observation: Removing the disconnect tends to improve the trigger. I've removed the disconnect safety from my LC9 and SR9c. (Recently, I got an LC9s Pro, which has no disconnect safety.) What I've found is that the mag disconnect safety affects the trigger pull in some way, such that removing it improves the pull, and hence the accuracy of the firearm.

We can dispense with all the various comments above about retention and struggling, about accidental release of the mag, about having the gun taken away from you - these are all valid arguments, but they are in the lightning-strike realm of possibility. Sure, they are possibilities, but then, the likelihood of your ever having to use a firearm for self-defense as a civilian are minute. Almost zero. Those of us in this community are trying to eliminate that 'almost zero' factor, and this brings us to the disconnect feature.

My argument is that shot placement is the more important issue. Will you get that first (or second) round on target?

Image


With this LC9, you don't have a mouse gun, but you do have a sub-compact. Accuracy is not a big feature. I've probably got around 600 rounds through this one, and I've learned its idiosyncrasies, gotten fairly good with it, but outside of say, 16 to 20 feet, it's getting into an area where a miss gets more likely. Accuracy is a key issue, and taking the disconnect device out of the gun makes that trigger smoother and the gun becomes more effective. On that basis alone, I say you should get rid of the safety.

The LC9s Pro has the trigger we Ruger owners have been after since day one. Less creep, shorter travel, etc. But with an earlier model (which I have, shown above), removing the safety improves the gun, and your most-likely need is to get that first or second round on target. Anything you can do to improve that calculus is in your favor.
 
Save
#62 ·
I have only one gun with magazine dis-connector, a BHP, so I don't know about the other ones.

Those of you who want to remove it must understand that you still need the mag dis-connector in the gun to hold the hand/lever in place. (misfire is a possibility without it)

There are different ways to fix rough trigger, but I want you to be aware of the above.
 
#63 ·
Yeah, I do not generally mess with guns out of the box from quality manufacturers. I pretty much only buy Colt, Browning, SA, or Ruger these days, and I don't have too many complaints. I have never really had a trigger on any of these that I could not live with. I did have a gunsmith remove the ILS from my SA micro-compact 1911. I hate that crap! I have had a number of BHP's over the years and, even though several had less than ideal triggers, they were never enough to make me get a trigger job. The BHP Standard (fixed sights) I carry now has trigger out of the box that is as good as my Colt 1911. But, I am not a competition shooter, either. I figure that the pistols are configured at the factory for optimum performance and, once you start messing with a gun yourself (unless you have some gunsmith skills), you are looking at messing up. I have minimal gunsmith skills ( I have detail stripped a 1911:smile:), so I try to behave myself.
 
#65 ·
I for one do not have a problem with the Magazine Disconnect It is not and was not a problem on S&W Gen-3 or the current MP series pistols so equipped that I've used for EDC. Also I did not see fit to remove the magazine disconnect from the examples of the BHP pistols that were in my possession either. I believe the so called issues with the magazine disconnect are greatly over stated.
 
#66 ·
I grew up with a BHP 9mm as my first semi auto handgun so I am used to having a magazine disconnect and manual safety. I like the feature because you can simply remove the mag and render the weapon safe. But it is like anything else....to each his own opinions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hackberry
Save
#67 ·
Magazine Disconnect Jambs

Setting aside the debate over whether a properly functioning magazine disconnect feature is likely to increase or decrease the likelihood of surviving a gun fight, consider that if the spring on the MDS on a Sig P226/P229 fails you may not be able to drop an empty magazine or insert a fresh one. Thanks State of California.
 
#69 ·
My department has dictated a mag disconnect on their issue weapon since they adopted their first semi-auto back around 1991. This dictate was so ingrained that when they switched from the S&W 3rd gens we carried to Sig-Sauer, the contract called for Sig to produce our P229 pistols with a mag disconnect. I'm of two minds on this. I personally know of a couple of officers that are alive today only because they were able to hit the mag release before the BG disarmed them in a fight. However, our dept. just started taking the mag disconnects out because they were having a problem with the disconnect mechanisms breaking and rendering the weapons inoperative. Up until they did so, the department was lucky it hadn't happened during a gunfight with a BG but only showed up during practice/quals. For an LEO, they might make sense, as they are much more likely to get into a scuffle while trying to arrest someone. For a CCW person, I don't think it's worth it.
 
#71 ·
I dislike a magazine disconnect as much now as I did prior to this thread, when this thread started 6 years ago, or after its resurrection.
 
Save
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.